Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

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Mgellis
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Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by Mgellis »

Friends,

My newest scenario beta...a little one...two American ships near the South Sandwich Islands stalking Soviet vessels when World War III breaks out. A very lonely patrol, far from the main action...

Please let me know what you think. As always, any suggestions, observations, etc. are welcome. What can I do to make this a more interesting, more challenging, and more realistic scenario? Thanks!

[version 2 uploaded 3:15 PM EST 2/7/18]
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msc
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RE: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by msc »

I love these "small" scenarios, where you can concentrate on leading a few units. So, this is perfect for me.

Neutral side is selectable at scenario start, it should be "computer only".
I think the triggers "random time 2" and "3" are to late. Every time I played the scenario the battle has been fought before these messages were sent. Perhaps "duration" can also be set to a shorter time? With the helicopter you can get the situation quickly and take your units into position. Maybe some more neutral traffic, so that it is more work to recognise the whole situation?

Many thanks for this scenario, it should be part of the next community package.
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Mgellis
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RE: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by Mgellis »

Version 2 uploaded. Thanks for the feedback, msc.
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ojms
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RE: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by ojms »

Nature is still showing as a playable side.

Thanks!
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RE: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by mikkey »

Nice small scenario, thanks Mark. I noticed that there are two "Neutrals" sides, one with 3 ships and second with one ship.
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RE: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by Mgellis »


Got it. Thanks!
ORIGINAL: ojms

Nature is still showing as a playable side.

Thanks!
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RE: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by Mgellis »


That's deliberate. ;)
ORIGINAL: mikkey

Nice small scenario, thanks Mark. I noticed that there are two "Neutrals" sides, one with 3 ships and second with one ship.
AlexGGGG
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RE: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by AlexGGGG »

Aaaaargh goddamn spies :)

Well I got me killed but not spotted any bugs aside of Nature being playable.
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RE: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by Mgellis »

Any other suggestions for this one, or is it ready for the Community Scenario Pack?

Thanks!
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AlGrant
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RE: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by AlGrant »


Just played this through. As mentioned in an earlier post, the Nature side is still playable

I saw the 2 sides called 'Neutrals' - Didn't notice any problems but did wonder if there was the potential for something to go wrong with any Special Actions that trigger on Side = Neutrals .... But didn't notice any (however I didn't kill any neutral shipping!) - Would it have an impact in a larger scenario with more units?

Using one of the helo's to scout out the area with its radar switched on made finding the 2 Soviet warships quite straightforward.
When they were detected they were in a position where I could quite quickly bring both of my ships into Harpoon range and launched from different directions. Both Soviets were taken out in a single attack.

Finding the submarine was a different matter! Following the Message about a sub in the area I had already changed the helo load-outs to ASW - 1 with torps and 1 with the Nuc option.

Rather than sailing around aimlessly I decided to use Demon Point as a centre point and sail around it at 5tks with Dahlgren approx 20nm out and Valdez another 30nm out from that ... .giving here passive towed array some clear water.

That didn't turn up much, so I had the helo's working one at a time approx 40nm ahead of the ships, dropping random DICASS.
One of the helo's was Bingo fuel & RTB with 2 remaining sonobouys - so they were just dropped on the way home.
Purely by luck one dropped about 3nm from a Goblin, so dropped the last one and launched the remaining helo (torpedo).

The Goblin contact was travelling at 5kts and -131ft depth .... pretty much a CMANO default for a sub at shallow! So marked Hostile, engaged and sunk.
(Giving some Transit & Station speed/depth values can make it more difficult to differentiate a Goblin sub from a whale)
Getting the sub was totally down to luck and could have taken far longer.


End Result:
Score = 260 (Triumph)
05/02/1988 06:07: Score changed from 0 to 100. Reason: Event Action: '100 points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Soviet ship destroyed')
05/02/1988 06:07: Score changed from 100 to 120. Reason: Event Action: '20 points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Soviet aircraft destroyed')
05/02/1988 06:07: Score changed from 120 to 220. Reason: Event Action: '100 points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Soviet ship destroyed')
05/02/1988 07:31: Score changed from 220 to 240. Reason: Event Action: '20 points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Soviet aircraft destroyed')
06/02/1988 03:52: Score changed from 240 to 260. Reason: Event Action: '20 points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Soviet submarine destroyed')

Notes/Comments:
Running in the Editor from the Soviet side.

** The Soviet Helo's operate at 1000ft (Low Alt), giving their radar about a 53nm range. They are probably down there due to allow a visual ID below the low cloud. Pushing them up above the cloud to 12,000ft (Med Alt) increases their radar range out to 148nm giving earlier detection. However it does limit visual ID of the commercial shipping.

** I was detected and ID'd at 'Hostile' at 18nm by the Sierra after about 3hrs game time - but not having any ASuW stand-off weapons she couldn't attack. And although well within weapons range, the Soviet SAG failed to engage at a range of 38nm due to the limits imposed by the prosecution area - a larger prosecution area or just relying on the Contacts outside the patrol are and Within weapon range would allow them to engage early - making things a bit harder for the US player. As a quick test, I removed the prosecution area for the Soviet SAG and tried to follow the same plan I used in my first play - And lost the Dahlgren to Sunburns!

I then got silly and added an Echo II (with Sunburn) at about 200nm East of Demon Point. I died rather quickly!
[:D]

A nice little scenario. Only having a few units to control does make it easier for newer players, but still has the potential to take a hit

I think the only thing I would really change is the prosecution limit for the Soviet SAG.


Al
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Goofeyfoot
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Re: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by Goofeyfoot »

I really like this scenario. But it looks like the Russians have about a 200 nautical mile range weapon. How do you ever get close enough to take them out? I’m pretty new at this, as you can imagine.
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Re: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by HalfLifeExpert »

Goofeyfoot wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 7:08 pm I really like this scenario. But it looks like the Russians have about a 200 nautical mile range weapon. How do you ever get close enough to take them out? I’m pretty new at this, as you can imagine.
Don't Get Detected :D

The challenge in this scenario is that there's plenty of open ocean area to electronically hide in. Make use of your helicopter's surface search radar to find the Soviet vessels, and close to range and attack before they even know you are there!
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Re: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by Goofeyfoot »

Thanks. Will try tonight.
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Re: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by Gunner98 »

4 Ships.JPG
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Thanks for a fun scenario Mark

Curious why the Dahlgren has both Mod 2 & Mod 5 torpedos for the helos. I think that by 1988 all the Mod 2 would be out of service or upgraded.
It might be useful to mark the AO somehow. There are some new features with RefPts and zones which may be helpful although I'm not sure they are working properly yet.

Here's how it went:

Searched around for a while but then caught a sniff of some skunks going at strange speeds, so I closed in and sure enough they had nefarious intent! Fuel was an issue and so was the sub warning. I swapped the helos to ASW and tried to keep one in the air monitoring the bad guys at all times while my ships closed range. Had to dodge some SAMs but was fairly routine at this point.

One of my LAMPs detected a launch so I fired up the Dahlgren's radars and ECM. How did he find me? His helo was refueling... Hmmm. Took down 12 Shaddocks at a cost of 28 (of 38) RIM-67s! Yikes and this was against the old ship. Fired off 2 Harpoons from the Valdez which was just coming into range, unfortunately these were went wide because I didn't have an accurate enough plot. Waited an eternity for the Mk16 to reload and fired the other two, one got spoofed (8% chance, rolled a 1!), the other hit but did not sink the skunk. He was still moving at 13 knts and I dropped a helo a little closer and under the clouds to check. The helo had been engaged by SAMs earlier so I wanted to keep a safe distance but it was dawn now and I needed a look.

Dahlgren forged ahead at flank speed to engage the other ship which probably had something better than Shaddocks. Closed to max harpoon range and launched 6 at the 2nd ship. 2 were shot down, 1 was spoofed, 2 hit and one cruised over the wreckage - Job Done! A nice modern Sovremenny feeding the fish.

The 1st ship, was badly damaged and on fire. It was a clunky but dangerous old Kynda that still had some fight left in it, firing its SAMs and guns once or twice at me as I deked out of range. I left her to burn to the waterline, ready with my last 2 harpoon if it somehow survived. I also examined the option of running the Valdez passed on a gunfire run but a FF vs an old cruiser did not seem like a good idea.

The sub was a different matter! As the ASMs were hitting the Sovremenny, I decided to slow Dahlgren down, turn off its active sonar and change course, just as a precaution. PING! Torpedo in the water! Back to flank, change course again and run. I must have screamed right over the goblin at 32 knts!

When things were just settling down the bloody Kynda fired another couple Shaddocks at me! OK - enough is enough and the last two Harpoons when on special delivery, again at max range. Of course it took 6 SMs to kill two Shaddocks so I had 4 left and by my calculation the Kynda still had 2 Shaddocks. The Harpoon were only half way to the target. Finger nails reduced somewhat, I reasoned that trying to save those last two harpoons was the prudent thing to do... until it wasn't!

By now the Valdez and all helos were enrout to where I thought the sub was. The Kynda shot down one of the incoming harpoons but the other got through. He was down to 2Knts and on fire but still afloat. Valdez's helo did a flyby at 4nm and the bugger didn't shoot but stubbornly stayed on the sunny side of the water.

The Dahlgren, thinking itself safe now, slowed down and turned around. Almost instantly she caught a whiff of a goblin and another torpedo at about 11nm, but heading the wrong way. A whale maybe? No mercy, the ASROCs were out of range, but just. Her helo was nearly close enough to attack, just back from dodging the Kynda's SAMs & guns - but nearly out of fuel. It took 2 ASROCs and a Mk46 from the helo to sink the Sierra which had fired 3 torpedos. Scratch on Goblin.

Meanwhile the Kynda is still afloat, and popping SAMs at the Valdez's helo which had returned to the scene to observe. This bugger won't die! OK Gun run it is and the Valdez makes short work of it.

Triumph, score 260. Great little scenario.
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Craigkn
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Re: Four Ships near Demon Point, 1988 - new beta for testing

Post by Craigkn »

This is a nice scenario, thanks for sharing. I wont repeat what others have said, but I did find that there is a bit of RNG involved with the success of the mission - if your Harpoons are not enough to do the job, it seems your out of options to sink the Russian ships, if their Sunburns are still active. I fired off my whole Harpoon loadout at the two ships, sunk one, but the Sovremenny remained damaged but afloat - and with fully functional SSM's. I did try to get cute and use the Dahlgren's SM-2ER in surface attack mode, and it seemed to work, but my fire control radars revealed my position to the Russians, and I caught several Sunburns in return - resulting in the Dahlgren sinking. I could have ignored the remaining Russian ship and went sub hunting, but it seemed to be too much of a threat floating around.

One way of resolving this would be to increase the point value of the sub a bit, so if you got sub + one surface ship, you could achieve a more favorable final score. I think in real life, that would be considered a major victory by this little SAG.

Overall great scenario!
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