The Bloody First to Arrive in 2018

[gravyface_]

ORIGINAL: Rodmorg

ORIGINAL: CGGrognard

To me it's good this game hasn't been release yet. I've used this time to get a Masters Degree.[:)]

Well done on the Masters!

I've used this time to go through every single operation and Campaign of every CC from CC3 to GTC... My verdict: Better AI [:D]

Looking to get back into CC, not sure if anything of the retreads are worth getting... price tag is really turning me off to be honest.

How is Last Stand Arnhem?

[richardlwakeland]

How is Last Stand Arnhem?
great like all the CC games

[gravyface_]

ORIGINAL: richardlwakeland

How is Last Stand Arnhem?
great like all the CC games

AI challenging at all?

[Neogodhobo]

AI will never be challenging in a game like this. You absolutely have to give you some major penalties ( try starting a game with only two platoon rather than 3 )

Where CC excel is in its multiplayer. But the MP aspect of the game is poorly designed, in my opinion.

[richardlwakeland]

its all in how you lay it

[STIENER]

last stand Arnhem is a great CC game...the best IMO....it has many new functions ....like stacking BG's and borrowing from the reserve BG force pool....moving onto maps with 2 BG's from diff directions....merging BG's. its a Long GC but its allot of fun....very challenging. as people have said tho CC excels in MP. the AI is a joke really.

Gravyface...where do you live? im on the west coast of Canada.....ill play you a LSA GC if we have similar time zones.......

[Rodmorg]

Gravy, I was joking mate, but I'm doing an Allied GC for both TLD and LSA at the moment. Kind of balanced when comparing the two, but as Stiener noted there are many features in LSA that aren't in TLD and other releases.

I'm pondering myself whether or not to purchase Wacht am Rhein

[richardlwakeland]

CST Missouri

[gravyface_]

Cool. I've never played MP CC, even back in the day. I somehow managed to entertain myself though. I do recall CC2 having decent AI: I don't know if that was because of placement, stance, maps, but I feel like it was a challenging win nonetheless.

[Benedict151]

Hello Neogodhobo

When you say - "But the MP aspect of the game is poorly designed, in my opinion" what are the key things you would like to see improved?
At this point I can't promise anything of course, but we are very open to suggestions

regards
Ben Wilkins

[Benedict151]

ORIGINAL: Rodmorg

ORIGINAL: CGGrognard

To me it's good this game hasn't been release yet. I've used this time to get a Masters Degree.[:)]

Well done on the Masters!

I've used this time to go through every single operation and Campaign of every CC from CC3 to GTC... My verdict: Better AI [:D]

Likewise - congratulations on the Masters Degree


With regard to the AI, yes we know ... and are working on it - but what would say would be the 3 key improvements that would make it better for you?

regards
Ben Wilkins

[Tejszd]

ORIGINAL: STIENER

last stand Arnhem is a great CC game...the best IMO....it has many new functions ....like stacking BG's and borrowing from the reserve BG force pool....moving onto maps with 2 BG's from diff directions....merging BG's. its a Long GC but its allot of fun....

Agreed! It is too bad that those features were deemed too complicated for game players and were not kept in the later releases....

[zakblood]

for me here is my list or suggestions, in no order

an editor

larger maps

2 level buildings and destructible buildings would be nice and more realistic

auto skirmish battles so a number of options then inf battles etc on different terrain types on a points systems

different height terrain and weather

could add and think of more tbh, but this is a nice small tidy lot for now[:D]

[STIENER]

Tejszd .....freakin CRAZY isn't it...." too complicated for game players to figure out " I almost shit myself when matrix came out with that lame ass excuse for not carrying on those great options.

Gravyface ....so where are you located?

Benedict151 ...the AI needs to react to your attack in a common sense way.....its needs to defend in a terrain friendly way.....it needs to use proper inf and tank tactics when it attacks. I mean really the AI is just BAD in SOOO many ways.

[gravyface_]

ORIGINAL: STIENER

Tejszd .....freakin CRAZY isn't it...." too complicated for game players to figure out " I almost shit myself when matrix came out with that lame ass excuse for not carrying on those great options.

Gravyface ....so where are you located?

Benedict151 ...the AI needs to react to your attack in a common sense way.....its needs to defend in a terrain friendly way.....it needs to use proper inf and tank tactics when it attacks. I mean really the AI is just BAD in SOOO many ways.

EST over here.

[Nomada_Firefox]

Benedict151 ...the AI needs to react to your attack in a common sense way.....its needs to defend in a terrain friendly way.....it needs to use proper inf and tank tactics when it attacks. I mean really the AI is just BAD in SOOO many ways.

I agree the AI in all previous CC is inexistent. However I am sure how at 20 years the programing for it has been improved. Just people usually think how the previous games where modern when they were not. But it is the fault from the sellers when they showed them as modern games but they were not.

At few words, a engine with more of 20 years..........what can you wait? I do not wait it from the last BF. I have played all the Battle Academy and even if it is a turns game, the AI was so good as never we saw it in CC.

[gravyface_]

ORIGINAL: Nomada_Firefox

Benedict151 ...the AI needs to react to your attack in a common sense way.....its needs to defend in a terrain friendly way.....it needs to use proper inf and tank tactics when it attacks. I mean really the AI is just BAD in SOOO many ways.

I agree the AI in all previous CC is inexistent. However I am sure how at 20 years the programing for it has been improved. Just people usually think how the previous games where modern when they were not. But it is the fault from the sellers when they showed them as modern games but they were not.

At few words, a engine with more of 20 years..........what can you wait? I do not wait it from the last BF. I have played all the Battle Academy and even if it is a turns game, the AI was so good as never we saw it in CC.

Wargaming is kind of the last of it's kind when it comes to AI. Every other genre just slaps MMO on it and considers it done.

There's some good AI out there though, for turn-based games particularly, but there's time to run an algorithm based on events _not_ happening in real-time, so it's less daunting of a task vs. a real-time game.

[Txema]

In my opinion the AI is the main problem in the Close Combat games. The AI must be thoroughly improved in the new engine as it has been discussed in previous posts. And it can be done in a realistic real-time tactical game. The Graviteam Tactics games have demonstrated that a much better AI is possible in this kind of games.

[Nomada_Firefox]

There's some good AI out there though, for turn-based games particularly, but there's time to run an algorithm based on events _not_ happening in real-time, so it's less daunting of a task vs. a real-time game.

If you compare the AI from the published CC games with the last ten years published RTS games, with a few exceptions, you will see a lot better AI.

Anyway, comparation here is a bad idea because the published CC games used a game engine from more of 22 years ago where deep changes in the AI were not possible and players usually think as if they were new games where they were not.

For me, I would be happy if the AI attacks me and it uses some type of tactics. I do not wait miracles, only some from the year 2018, not from 1996.

[mickxe5]

ORIGINAL: Nomada_Firefox

For me, I would be happy if the AI attacks me and it uses some type of tactics. I do not wait miracles, only some from the year 2018, not from 1996.

The CC AI is particularly weak as the attacker. The 3 things I think most need improving are:

*Situational Awareness - of victory conditions, kill zones, force morale/enemy losses, and the game timer.

*Deployment - better use of cover and concealment, more forward deployment, more variability in deployment instead of the same 3 unit groups in the same general places.

* (un)Predictability - except on the rare occasions the AI chooses maximum aggression it generally waits until the 5 minute mark to make a concerted offensive effort, even if the tactical situation calls for a hold tight defense.

Bonus - expose more of the AI's decision tree in user accessible scripts as was previously possible in the BGroups and Campaign.txt files.