OT: The Last Jedi

[jamesjohns]

My 2 cents worth

Give you an idea of my own movie preferences

Was in middle school when Original "New Hope" came out, was perfect age/target audience, Star Wars geek ever since. [;)](Luke as a teen, Obi Wan old) Loved New Hope and Empire Strikes back, loved 1st half of Return of the Jedi, but very disappointed with Ewok. Really, 3 foot teddy bears with sticks beating Storm Troopers?? Now if Endor had bunch of angry Wookies with sticks and rocks smashing storm troopers, that would be great.

Really disliked prequels, 1st one (Ankin as a child). Lots of reasons; Jar Jar [:@]force power measured by a blood test, Jedi are nonchalant about slavery, only saving grace was fight with Darth Maul, Ewan McGregor and Liam Neson. 2nd prequel, Anikin is whining teen, really, really bad acting, overemphasis on bad CGI. Did like the general idea of how/why he starts to turn and Ewan MCGregor did a good job with Obi Wan. 3rd one is watchable for me, still really bad acting by Anikin, but Obi Wan did great and plot was ok.

Loved Rogue One, really well done

Really enjoyed The Force Awakens, liked the new characters and story line. Only problem I had was the whole "Let's build another Death Star". The operational plans of the Empire, or Last Order must be from the the same staff that buys Storm Trooper Armor. Admiral, our armor can't even stop sticks from 3 foot teddy bears and do you know what happened to the 1st two Death Stars?

SPOILERS for Last Jedi

Mixed feelings on it. Like the graphics and return to some of the big space battles. Liked almost all of the characters and the overall direction of the plot and the length of the move. Also enjoyed teasing of Kylo turning good, or at least not totally bad. Like the fight with Kylo, Rey and guards.

Dislikes, Luke as the grumpy old hermit who tries to kill his nephew in his sleep. Luke as a dairy farmer was really really bad, I am ok with his death but wish he would have been more of the philosophical, mentor role for Ray, teaching her the force. Show him as conflicted/reluctant to teach her, worried about his own pull toward dark side and his experience teaching Kylo. He just came across as the "kids, get off my lawn" guy.

Just hoping they bring back Wedge Antilles for the last move

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: jamesjohns

Dislikes, Luke as the grumpy old hermit who tries to kill his nephew in his sleep. Luke as a dairy farmer was really really bad, I am ok with his death but wish he would have been more of the philosophical, mentor role for Ray, teaching her the force. Show him as conflicted/reluctant to teach her, worried about his own pull toward dark side and his experience teaching Kylo. He just came across as the "kids, get off my lawn" guy.

[:D]
We should invite him to join our Geezer thread in the War Room!

[IdahoNYer]

Saw it tonight with the kids back from college. Traditional Star Wars Movie venture!

Overall....it didn't suck. Better than the Force Awakens which just seemed to be a bad rehash of Episode IV.

I liked Rogue One, and I didn't think this was as good. Had some good moments, but geeze....if the Empire (or whatever they're called now) is this bad...how the heck did they conquer the galaxy?

Biggest drawback to me was the emphasis on big splashy effects vs. the story and characters....and it was a tad long.

[Olorin]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This thread reminds me of the Dunkirk thread early in the year. We were all very excited about seeing that movie, but then we broke into two camps - some who loved it, some who didn't. Looks like Star Wars may be in the same boat - on Rotten Tomatoes, 93% of "professional" reviewers gave it high scores, but only 56% of regular folks. That's an interesting divergence.

It just shows that the studio allocated some money to obtain good reviews. [8D]

[MakeeLearn]

Just play in the yard and make your own Star Wars drama.

[John 3rd]

THAT IS COOL! (or HOT I suppose...)

[Aurorus]

The story, plot, and characters in the the Bioware game Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, and especially the sequel by Obsidian, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II were far better than anything Hollywood has produced since the original 3 Star Wars movies. I think that the creative spark moved to game-making some time ago, and there are few, if any, creative people remaining in motion pictures. Unfortunately, video games now are moving in the same direction as Hollywood.

As an aside, I find it very annoying that movies produced in the English-speaking world now all base their plots and characters around the political issues and agendas important to the U.S. and England. Once art becomes tied to political propaganda and stops being art for the sake of art, it is no longer art. Go watch old Soviet Russian-language movies and you will see how bad politically driven "art" eventually becomes.

[geofflambert]

I would answer all critiques in a totally fair manner, except that my light sabre is not functional for some reason, at the moment. It operates (or not) on Windows 10. I don't in fact know if that has anything to do with it, I just have my suspicions.

[Canoerebel]

Ratings for The Last Jedi continue to fall on Rotten Tomatoes. How does Disney take this? It invested massively and Star Wars seems like a safe bet to succeed, but hype and enthusiasm for each new release is key. What happens if there are two or three duds in a row? What happens if there is no longer any sense of hype or expectation?

Disney must be analyzing everything carefully to determine the cause of the disconnect and how to address it.

P.S. I have enjoyed the Star Wars franchise through the years. I hope the franchise is successful in putting out movies that delight audiences, including me. So I'm not pulling against Star Wars. I just find the financial aspects interesting.

[JeffroK]

I think they got a great opening week, possibly made their money already.
Some of these review sites get deteriorating reviews as time passes, those happy dont comment, the unhappy get online and lower the ratings.

[Canoerebel]

Right. The anticipation led to a massive opening. But the movie has since underperformed greatly, with viewership falling in ways unheard of for a Star Wars movie. For this movie, that may not matter - the investment might've been covered. But what happens if there's an erosion in anticipation so that future openings don't cover the investment? That's what's intriguing. That's something that Disney has to be wondering about.

[Zorch]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Right. The anticipation led to a massive opening. But the movie has since underperformed greatly, with viewership falling in ways unheard of for a Star Wars movie. For this movie, that may not matter - the investment might've been covered. But what happens if there's an erosion in anticipation so that future openings don't cover the investment? That's what's intriguing. That's something that Disney has to be wondering about.

Audience expectations increase with each film. It's not enough to make a 'good' movie; it must be better than the previous one.
I think this accounts for part of the difference between critics and audience scores.

[John 3rd]

Tell you that I am a HUGE FAN of Star Wars and I have little desire to see the 3rd of this trilogy after my intense disappointment with Last Jedi. I even saw it a 2nd time HOPING I would feel better. Not really...

[etsadler]

Return of the Jedi was released in 1983 and grossed a total of $475MM world wide. Adjusted to 2017 dollars that is ~$1.18B

The Force Awakens was released in 2015 and grossed a total of $2.068B, adjusted for inflation $2.15B. It was, IMHO, the most anticipated movie in the history of cinema.

Rogue One was released in 2016 and grossed $1.056B, adjusted for inflation $1.08B.

The Last Jedi has, so far, grossed $1.129B.

Adjusting for inflation North American ticket sales ($) are 20% higher now than in 1983, while number of tickets sold is up about 10% over the same period.

My conclusion is that, within a reasonable variance, Rogue One and The Last Jedi are just as popular (and financially rewarding for the studio) as Return of the Jedi. The Force Awakens is such an anomaly that no comparisons are valid. Disney is just fine. The three movies cost ~$700MM to produce and have grossed ~$4.25B. Not to mention that Disney paid for Lucasfilm in stock, which is essentially free. Disney is just fine.

[etsadler]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Right. The anticipation led to a massive opening. But the movie has since underperformed greatly, with viewership falling in ways unheard of for a Star Wars movie. For this movie, that may not matter - the investment might've been covered. But what happens if there's an erosion in anticipation so that future openings don't cover the investment? That's what's intriguing. That's something that Disney has to be wondering about.

Return of the Jedi did the following adjusted for inflation domestic weekly box office:

Week 1: $131MM
Week 2: 70MM
Week 3: 50MM
Week 4: 50MM
Week 5: 50MM

Week 2 was 53% of week 1 and week 3 was 71% of week 2.

The Last Jedi:

Week 1: $297MM
Week 2: 168MM
Week 3: 84MM

Week 2 was 56% of week 1 (which was over 100% higher than Return)
Week 3 was 50% of Week 2 which is, yes a higher drop.

Through three weeks Return had an inflation adjusted domestic gross of $251MM and Last Jedi $549MM. Return's domestic box office is about $780MM inflation adjusted lifetime, and Last Jedi is already 77% of the way there after 3 weeks.

Certainly time will tell. But, I feel the results do not agree with the statement that "viewership falling in ways unheard...".

[USSAmerica]

I went to see The Last Jedi on the "preview" opening night and absolutely loved it. I wanted to let the thrill and excitement wear off a bit before trying to compare it to the other Star Wars movies. We went back and saw it again yesterday in IMAX 3D and loved it just as much.

As a lifelong Star Wars fan, I have to say The Last Jedi is my very favorite movie of the bunch! [8D]

[John 3rd]

Why? How? Serious questions. I feel so jaded that I cannot fathom the direction taken by the film. Would love to hear the other side of the coin.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

I watched it with my wife on 28th December and we both loved it (we are old fans - I still remember those long queues in the summer of 1977 when I waited for the tickets for the first movie)...


Leo "Apollo11"

[Jorge_Stanbury]

In the end I was "forced" to watch it [;)] I mean some friends wanted to see it and we went to those movie theaters that serve beer, so it was not that bad an idea,
anyway, I didn't like the movie at all, same repetitive ideas, poor laughable bad guys, serious holes in the universe's canon, too many irrelevant sub plots, cartoonish super hero like characters and obvious leftist/ SJW political agendas.

And I don't think it is possible to compare blockbuster dollar numbers of today against old classics even corrected to inflation; it is a growing industry, numbers are much better now than they used to be. That said, non production expenses (marketing, advertisement, buying critics, etc) are ten fold higher these days than they used to be. Disney is definitively going to make a lot of money with SWs

[John 3rd]

More theatre screens are the big factor on not being able to correlate the box office. Check the numbers of when ROTJ was released compared to TLJ. I'll wager the number is easily double that of the 80s if not triple...