Is Ammo Supply Knowable?

Tigers on the Hunt is a World War 2 hard-core tactical wargame for PC.

It creates a truly and immersive depth tactical simulation. Tigers on the Hunt boasts a ferocious and adaptive AI which will dynamically respond to a player’s maneuvers.

Moderators: Peter Fisla, Paullus

Post Reply
Akmatov
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2000 8:00 am
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

Is Ammo Supply Knowable?

Post by Akmatov »

Notice that Support Weapons can run out of ammo. I assume MGs have enough ammo for a scenario, but I just discovered that things like AT guns, and I suspect mortars, have a limited supply of ammo. Obviously, knowing this would affect decisions on when to use these weapons. Surely it must be knowable somehow. Not showing up in the Manual.
User avatar
UP844
Posts: 1668
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:10 pm
Location: Genoa, Republic of Genoa (occupied by Italy)

RE: Is Ammo Supply Knowable?

Post by UP844 »

Some specialised weapons have a limited amount of the ammo not directly related to their role.

You do not have a fixed amount of special ammo; instead, every time you roll to hit a target, the dice roll is compared to a "depletion number": if the dice roll is higher than the depletion number for that type of ammo, the AFV/Ordnance is considered to be out of that type of ammo.

Theoretically, you could conceivably fire special ammo for 20 fire segments as long as you roll low enough. The harsh reality, however, is that you usually fire them only once or twice.

By way of example:
AT guns and Tank Destroyers have limited HE
INF guns, ART guns and self-propelled artillery have limited AP or HEAT
APDS, APCR and HEAT ammo is also usually limited; American and British TD/AT guns might have a bit more APDS/APCR at the later stages of the war. German APCR depletion numbers reach their peak in 1943 and then decrease because tungsten was becoming too scarce to waste it in AP rounds.

Tanks and Assault Guns usually have unlimited AP and HE.

There are exceptions to the above general rules: the Sherman Firefly, being a specialised "Anti-Tank" Sherman, has limited HE. German vehicles armed with the short 75mm have limited AP/HEAT, as their primary role was infantry support.

As a rule of thumb, do not count on more than one round of limited ammo [:)], so don't waste it on targets you have a poor chance to hit.

On a side note, the amount of special ammo carried on board was usually limited to a very few rounds: the only hard data I have been able to discover is 5 APCR rounds on the T-34/85 and similar amounts for German tanks. American tanks were not intended to use APCR, but it was common practice to scrounge some from TD units [;)].
Chasing Germans in the moonlight is no mean sport

Siegfried Sassoon

Long Range Fire (A7.22)........1/2 FP
User avatar
Peter Fisla
Posts: 2520
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2001 8:00 am
Location: Canada

RE: Is Ammo Supply Knowable?

Post by Peter Fisla »

Special ammunition is randomly determined (ordnance and AFVs) when playing a scenario. Example, German StuG IIIB will start with some HEAT rounds (however, not know how many). To check if a StuH IIIB still has a HEAT round, select the AFV in say Fire segment, then middle lick the mouse button on an enemy AFV in LOS. The Combat Advisor will show % chance to hit for all types of shells still available (including HEAT).
User avatar
genesismwt
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:35 am
Location: The middle of flyover country

RE: Is Ammo Supply Knowable?

Post by genesismwt »

If ToTH follows the ASL model, there is usually about a 1 in 4 chance of apcr, and about 50-50 for he and heat. Once a roll results in no special ammo, it's lost to that unit for the rest of the battle. These numbers are vehicle specific and may vary. RNG may grace you with 3 apcr shots in a game from a vehicle, then you may not see apcr work for the next 3 games.

One nice thing about the ASL mechanic is that the chance of having a round is a function of the to hit roll. Thus, the chance of having apcr, means that you have a good chance of hitting. This means, don't take a low percentage to hit chance with specialty ammo. Don't waste an apcr attempt in the advance fire segment, unless its a desperation move. Take a regular ap shot, get acquisition and hope to survive to next defensive fire segment where RNG granting an apcr round also means that you are likely to get a hit too. I have not seen under the hood, but it appears to me that ToTH follows this mechanic also. Also remember, this is not a simulator. It does not account for every round. ToTH, and ASL, account for effects. One shot in ToTH can represent several shots in real time. That one success could represent using up all 5 of the real life apcr rounds to get that one successful hit. One unsuccessful shot could represent the weapon only having one round and it missed.
The game is afoot!

Mike
User avatar
rico21
Posts: 3034
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:05 am

RE: Is Ammo Supply Knowable?

Post by rico21 »

The ease with which you explain the points of rules is amazing [&o]
and would make, almost, this game (ASL) nice![:D]
Can you enlighten us on:
1- the advantage of the hills.
2-the different levels of tanks (veteran, elite ...).
Thanks, Mike.
User avatar
genesismwt
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:35 am
Location: The middle of flyover country

RE: Is Ammo Supply Knowable?

Post by genesismwt »

Thank you for the kind words, Rico.

In answer to your first question, I don't find much advantage to a hill in TotH. It should give the same TEM as a woods hex (+1) if LOS crosses a crest line. In ASL, the big advantage is being able to go hull down for tanks. This mechanic is not present in TotH. The only advantage in TotH, I find, is being able to see past some obstacles.

In regards to the second question, I assume you are meaning rank, instead of tank. It is a reference to the quality of the troops. In ASL it is called experience level rating(ELR). It has levels from 2 to 5 which directly corresponds with TotH’s conscript to elite ratings. If a unit fails its MC by more than its ELR number, it becomes the next lower quality unit. Elite goes to 1st line, goes to 2nd line goes to conscript or green. The names that are used in TotH are appropriate. Leaders are always elite, that’s why you rarely see them slip in quality, though sometimes it happens. I think it shows itself most with early war Russians and late war Germans. Their ELR is usually set at 2 or 3. By the end of a game, a good number of troops should be concripts. American units North Africa scenarios should mostly be at conscript or seasoned ranks at best. It represents the experience level or number of veterans in the units.

I hope this helps.
The game is afoot!

Mike
User avatar
rico21
Posts: 3034
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 8:05 am

RE: Is Ammo Supply Knowable?

Post by rico21 »

It helps me a lot to determine that asking for changes on the level rank would not do much. Thanks Mike.
Post Reply

Return to “Tigers on the Hunt”