Updated 30/07/2022: Bottlenecks in the Pacific v1.3b

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Falken
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Falken »

Hi LST,

I could test it, actually, looking very forward to it, but since it would be H2H for this game, it would happen very slowly. Maybe just release it, and see if others can help test and report back any bugs...
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LargeSlowTarget
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

Mundy might be willing to try another Bottlenecks PBEM - maybe you can PM him. Don't have much time for playtesting at the moment, just got back from holidays and have a backlog at work. But I can send you the updated files.
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Yaab
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Yaab »

Great mod!

Two quick questions:

1)Did you change any LCU slots for Japanese units? If not, this scenario can be played against Japanese AI.

2) What is the cost to repair a Resources Center? Is it 500 supplies just like for an LI center?

EDIT: hmm, total disabled LI in CONUSA is 19,485 LI centers. Total disabled Res centers in CONUSA is 32,797 centers. Once all repaired LI is producing, it will need 487,125 new resources daily. Once you repair all disabled Res centers you will have 819,925 new resources daily. Thus you only need to repair 19,485 resources centers to meet the demand from the repaired LI. If you repair LI and Res at the same time, you will never develop a resource deficit, thus there will be no need to ship resource to CONUSA form South America. Maybe trim the disbaled reosurces centers to 17,485 so you have a daily 50,000 resources deficit that needs to be bridged by daily convoys from South America?
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Mundy
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Mundy »

Yaab, I've found that the LI in the US is pretty much repaired within a couple months or so. It's tight at first, but by March 42, the US is in good shape.
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Yaab
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Yaab »

Well, I would say supply production in CONUSA is surprisingly good on Dec 7, 1941 - 60,000 supplies per day. With all LI repaired, CONUSA will produce almost 100,000 supplies per day.
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LargeSlowTarget
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

Two quick questions:

1)Did you change any LCU slots for Japanese units? If not, this scenario can be played against Japanese AI.

2) What is the cost to repair a Resources Center? Is it 500 supplies just like for an LI center?


Re 1): Sorry, I can't remember - I'm over 40. Plus I have been working on/off on this mod for years and did not take proper changelog notes. I would say it is quite likely that some units have been moved from one slot to another. From the beginning I have decided to mod without regard to AI games, since I lack the knowledge / time to dig into modding the AI scripts.

Re 2): Here are the supply costs per repair point :

Industries:
Oil: 2000
Resource: 1000
Manpower: 1000
Heavy Industry: 2500
Naval Shipyard: 5000
Merchant Shipyard: 5000
Repair Shipyard: 2500
Armament Assembly: 1000
Vehicle Assembly: 2000
Light Industry: 500
Refinery: 2500

Engines:
Radial (early): 2000
Radial (late): 3000
Inline (early): 2000
Inline (late): 3000
Toko Rocket: 5000
NE Turbojet: 5000
Obsolete engine: 3000
Foreign engine: 3000

(the last two engine types should not be build - I may make their costs prohibitive, like 10.000 or so).
EDIT: hmm, total disabled LI in CONUSA is 19,485 LI centers. Total disabled Res centers in CONUSA is 32,797 centers. Once all repaired LI is producing, it will need 487,125 new resources daily. Once you repair all disabled Res centers you will have 819,925 new resources daily. Thus you only need to repair 19,485 resources centers to meet the demand from the repaired LI. If you repair LI and Res at the same time, you will never develop a resource deficit, thus there will be no need to ship resource to CONUSA form South America. Maybe trim the disbaled reosurces centers to 17,485 so you have a daily 50,000 resources deficit that needs to be bridged by daily convoys from South America?

Heavy industry needs resources as well.

I've found that the LI in the US is pretty much repaired within a couple months or so. It's tight at first, but by March 42, the US is in good shape.
Well, I would say supply production in CONUSA is surprisingly good on Dec 7, 1941 - 60,000 supplies per day. With all LI repaired, CONUSA will produce almost 100,000 supplies per day.


A large part of that 60k supply generation should be eaten by the repairs. Given Mundy's experience, I may tweak the numbers a bit by adding more damaged HI - will eat supplies but does not generate supplies.
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Yaab
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Yaab »

But I have no disabled HI in CONUSA. At start I am running a 7800 resources surplus and I will be only repairing LI and half of the disabled Resource centers. May data is from Tracker.

Also, if all disabled industry can be repaired by March, 1942, then the USA economic expansion tempo is too fast. You could slash the daily free supply from 54,000 to 30,000 supplies so the USA economic expansion takes longer.
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LargeSlowTarget
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

if all disabled industry can be repaired by March, 1942,

No way, industries repair one point max per day and there are industries with hundreds of disabled devices.

But I hear you - I will check and tweak the resource generation, daily supplies and add damaged HI to stretch the economic expansion even more.

As I said in the mod notes, I have a "seat-of-the-pants" approach towards the experimental industry changes (I'm not using tracker).

Thx for the feedback!
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Yaab
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Yaab »

Nice. You could also try upping Resources generation in Alaska so the CONUSA can ship resources from two places: Alaska and South America. South America is just two ports and if you create too big a resources deficit in CONUSA the two ports may get clogged with ships.
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Yaab
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Yaab »

LST, you have several disabled LI centers in CONUSA in 1500-1999 range. The whole game runs for roughly 1570 turns. CONUSA should peak economically late 1944, thus it would be best to set disabled industries in 0-1000 range and no more. This means you need to add more smaller centers (disabled 1999 LI center becomes 2 x dsiabled LI 1000 center). Just a thought.
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LargeSlowTarget
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

Hi Yaab,

True, historically production peaked in late 1944 when the Allies anticipated that they would have enough stuff to defeat Germany and Japan and started to cut-back production and began to plan for post-war reconversion.

The 1500-2000 range in the game is intended as a sort of reserve, in case late-war supply consumption turns out to be higher than anticipated (higher losses in game than historically for example) - don't want to create a "show-stopper" situation with the Allies being short of supplies late-war. The Allied player may simply stop the factory repairs in late 1944 if he thinks he has enough stuff. Btw, I cannot split 2000 LI into 2x 1000 LI at CONUS - there are only 20 factory slots per base and all are being used already.
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Lowpe
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Lowpe »

I really wish I had the time to get into this mod...I love the idea and innovation. [&o]
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Yaab
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Yaab »

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Hi Yaab,

True, historically production peaked in late 1944 when the Allies anticipated that they would have enough stuff to defeat Germany and Japan and started to cut-back production and began to plan for post-war reconversion.

The 1500-2000 range in the game is intended as a sort of reserve, in case late-war supply consumption turns out to be higher than anticipated (higher losses in game than historically for example) - don't want to create a "show-stopper" situation with the Allies being short of supplies late-war. The Allied player may simply stop the factory repairs in late 1944 if he thinks he has enough stuff. Btw, I cannot split 2000 LI into 2x 1000 LI at CONUS - there are only 20 factory slots per base and all are being used already.

Understood, but how do you repair the 1500-1999 range if the whole campaign runs for 1570 turns, and you can only repair one point per day of disabled industry in a given location?
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LargeSlowTarget
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Understood, but how do you repair the 1500-1999 range if the whole campaign runs for 1570 turns, and you can only repair one point per day of disabled industry in a given location?

Well, I think the game will simply end with 430 unrepaired points remaining.

Not bothering to check the end date and to do the proper math, I just made a rough guess, like "5 x 360, that's 1800 turns. Let's round it up to 2000 to be sure".
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Yaab
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Yaab »

You could borrow from the RHS mod and put a Midwest base in that long corridor leading from the map edge to the East Coast and stuff the base with lots of industry.
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LargeSlowTarget
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

Good hint, but I have not a single unassigned base slot remaining. I have even recycled most of the rather useless bases from the deep South Pacific and places like Ruby and Tonopah which will most likely never see action. I'll take another look around to see if I can "liberate" another less important location somewhere.
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LargeSlowTarget
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

I have decided to create two Bottlenecks v1.1 scenarios:

- scen059 "Bottlenecks v1.1 Standard" with standard engine production (Ha-34, Ha-35, Ha-5 etc.) and standard bomb loadouts
- scen060 "Bottlenecks v1.1 Experimental" in the tradition of Bottlenecks v1.0 with simplified engine production (early radial, late radial, late inline etc.) and diversified bomb loads using mission filters and "bomb sticks".

Both will have the changes and fixes I have made in the meantime, like nerfing the Civilians, fixed error in the pwhexdat file concerning Adam's bridge, a few more ships added, tweaks to the resources production, adding withdrawal / return dates (glaring exemple is USS Nevada, which spent time in the ETO IRL but remains glued to the PTO in the game).

Scen060 is still under construction and won't be ready for along time.

Scen059 was getting ready for publication - until I discovered another issue this morning that I'd like to address: wrong availability dates for many ships.

Just one example (the freshest one I found): In the game, the APA Cambria (slot 5174) has a delay value = 430415 and location value = Alameda. That means the ship will arrive on-map on April 15th 1943 at Alameda. Now let's see what DANFS says about the ship:

"Cambria (APA-36) was launched 10 November 1942 as Sea Swallow by Western Pipe and Steel Co., San Francisco, Calif., under a Maritime Commission contract; sponsored by Mrs. W. Griffin; acquired by the Navy 4 May 1943; placed in partial commission the same day, Lieutenant Commander W. S. Baker in command; sailed to New York for decommissioning and conversion to an attack transport; and recommissioned 10 November 1943, Captain C. W. Dean, USCG, in command.
Cambria departed Norfolk 11 December 1943 and arrived at Pearl Harbor on New Year's Day. After 3 weeks of intensive training, she sailed on 23 January 1944 for the invasion of the Marshall Islands, where she served as flagship for Majuro Attack Group during the landings."

So, instead of coming on-map at Alameda on April 15th, 1943, Cambria should arrive at New York on November 10th, 1943 - almost seven months later. I have found many more inaccuracies like that, many ships arrive on-map on their commissioning date, but often on the "acquired" date or the launching date and and I have seen at least one example arriving on-map on the date its keel had been laid IRL. No wonder the Allies are on steroids...

As a consequence, I will release a 'beta version' of scen059 now, for those who want to test how the civilians behave now (Mundy? Lowpe? Falken?) or who do not care about such details like availability dates.

The 'full' version of scen059 will follow at a later date, and scen060 even later.

Dropbox download of Bottlenecks 1.1 scen059 Beta

Edit: This is an incremental update - installation of Bottlenecks v1.0 required, then copy/replace the files of the v1.1 update into the v1.0 install.


Edit2: Just for the records, I will add more examples of wrong availability dates as I find them in DANFS:

- Procyon: started in PTO, participated in Torch, Husky, Avalanche and Dragoon > no withdrawal in AE
- Titania: participated in Torch, departed EC for the Pacific on Dec 17th 1942 > arrives on-map May 27th 1942 - almost 7 months early
- Oberon: started in ETO (Torch), made one trip to Noumea before returning to ETO for Husky, Avalanche and Dragoon, then PTO deployment from Jan 1945 on > arrives on-map June 15th 1942 and no withdrawal
- Andromeda: redeployed from ETO to PTO in Dec 1944 > arrives on-map Jan 15th 1944 - almost a year too early

[heck, on the first five AKA types listed in DANFS, the game has it wrong for four - guess the final version of scen059 will be delayed a loooong time]

- Centa(u)rus: launched Sept 3rd and commissioned 21 Oct 1943 > in AE, arrives six month early on April 15th 1943 (+ spelling error)
- Cepheus: Departed Norfolk for the PTO on Dec 18th 1944 > is three weeks or so LATE in AE, arrives at Panama Jan 15th 1945
- Thuban: launched April 26th 1943 and commissioned June 10th 1943 > in AE, arrives March 15th 1943, 3 months early
- Virgo: launched 4th June 1943 and commissioned 10 July 1943 at NY > in AE, arrives 15 March 1943 at Panama - 4 months early
- Athene: commissioned 29 Sept 1944 > in AE, arrives 15 Feb 1944 - seven months early
- Circe: arrived at PH from the EC on Jan 3rd 1945 > arrives at EC on Jan 11th 1945, so is about a month LATE
- Corvus: departed EC for PTO Dec 2nd 1944 > arrives at EC Jan 15th 1945, so is five weeks LATE
- Medea: commissioned Jan 10th 1945 > arrives in AE July 15th 1944 - six month early
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Mundy
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RE: Mod Release: Bottlenecks in the Pacific

Post by Mundy »

Hey LST,

I don't think your new mod file includes the map artwork. Will this be an issue?
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LargeSlowTarget
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Mod Update: Bottlenecks in the Pacific 1.1.Beta

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

Hi Mundy,

the new mod file is a patch, not the full mod.

The v1.1. contains only a few additional ship art files, the new scenario files, and the corrected pwhexdat file.

You need to have v1.10 installed (which contains the map files and the other art files) and then copy the v1.1 files, overwriting the v1.0 files.
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Mundy
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RE: Mod Update: Bottlenecks in the Pacific 1.1.Beta

Post by Mundy »

Gotcha... thanks.
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