Vichy and conq France primer

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jjdenver
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Vichy and conq France primer

Post by jjdenver »

I have a few questions about this but one urgent one for an ongoing game is:

If FR has BB's at sea when Vichy is formed. Who RTB's them? This will have impact since if they are in metro France it won't affect Vichy roll for aligned minors. If GE gets to RTB them they can RTB them to timbuktu to make the vichy rolls go their way.

I'll add a few more questions later.

Thanks
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Majorball68
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by Majorball68 »

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

I have a few questions about this but one urgent one for an ongoing game is:

If FR has BB's at sea when Vichy is formed. Who RTB's them? This will have impact since if they are in metro France it won't affect Vichy roll for aligned minors. If GE gets to RTB them they can RTB them to timbuktu to make the vichy rolls go their way.

I'll add a few more questions later.

Thanks

Only ships set to Stay at Sea will not be able to RTB. Its up to you to make sure you set all BB to RTB so you can return them during the RTB phase. Conquest happens later in the turn after production so usually its only some CP that are at sea during this phase.
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paulderynck
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by paulderynck »

France returns them.

But France has to anticipate Vichy being declared and may be wrong!
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by AlbertN »

France decides the regular Return to Base phase - which is before the Peace segment (where Vichy may happen).

Ships at sea when Vichy is declared are returned to ports by Germany (or better the Vichy installer which usually is Germany)
jjdenver
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by jjdenver »

This answers my question - thanks. The problem is it's often difficult for France to know whether GE will declare Vichy or not.

If you are not sure whether GE will install Vichy or not, what's the usual procedure with FR fleet? Send CA's to Equatorial Africa if possible and put BB's in Bordeaux and hope to hold it long enough to see if Vichy is going to be declared? Corsica seems like an option also but will only hold 4 ships.
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paulderynck
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by paulderynck »

Putting the other ships that can reach in Equatorial Africa is the usual play, but the BBs have to be in Metropolitan France or you risk all the colonies going Vichy and then there's no Free France and the ships are Vichy no matter where they are.
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jboldt007
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by jboldt007 »

Thanks - this thread cleared up some confusion I had when Vichy was created. Vichy ended up with allot of capital ships and as a result the Allies are loath to do a DOW on Vichy which really limits invasion options in the Mediterranean...
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Orm
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: jboldt007

Thanks - this thread cleared up some confusion I had when Vichy was created. Vichy ended up with allot of capital ships and as a result the Allies are loath to do a DOW on Vichy which really limits invasion options in the Mediterranean...
The number of capital ships should not be an issue when Allies are strong enough to invade France. Then their advantage should be to strong for the obsolete Vichy fleet regardless if they have lots of ships.

Just threatening to invade Vichy France is often enough for Germany to collapse the Vichy regime.
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: jboldt007

Thanks - this thread cleared up some confusion I had when Vichy was created. Vichy ended up with allot of capital ships and as a result the Allies are loath to do a DOW on Vichy which really limits invasion options in the Mediterranean...
To use the Vichy navy, the controlling Axis major power (usually Germany) has to take a Combined or a Naval action. They are usually loathe to do that, especially if they are conducting a land war in Russia.
Steve

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jboldt007
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by jboldt007 »

In current game Vichy has Jean Bart and a fair number of other decent French ships, right now sitting in Syria. the Italian Navy is still intAct but mistletoe .... no that’s .... immobilized due to a lack of oil. But because Vichy controls so much of North Africa - getting a foothold in Italy for the allies hasn’t materialized- the best option would be to move into Yugoslavian ports held by partisans at the moment from Egypt provided supply can be maintained.
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Centuur
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by Centuur »

ORIGINAL: jboldt007

In current game Vichy has Jean Bart and a fair number of other decent French ships, right now sitting in Syria. the Italian Navy is still intAct but mistletoe .... no that’s .... immobilized due to a lack of oil. But because Vichy controls so much of North Africa - getting a foothold in Italy for the allies hasn’t materialized- the best option would be to move into Yugoslavian ports held by partisans at the moment from Egypt provided supply can be maintained.

No operation Torch? Why? Vichy territories can't be entered by other Axis units, except if they send in a HQ too...
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jjdenver
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by jjdenver »

I'm not completely clear on how Vichy rules work for op torch. I heard someone mention that CW can do a torch early on Morrocco/Algeria/Tunisia. Won't this cause Vichy to go hostile and sail their navy vs CW? CW has to DOW Vichy to get in right? And Vichy navy can be in Atlantic ports which can be a headache for CW.
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Zecke
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by Zecke »

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

I'm not completely clear on how Vichy rules work for op torch. I heard someone mention that CW can do a torch early on Morrocco/Algeria/Tunisia. Won't this cause Vichy to go hostile and sail their navy vs CW? CW has to DOW Vichy to get in right? And Vichy navy can be in Atlantic ports which can be a headache for CW.

Dont Know whatt goes on in WF; but in most of the games VICHY is a problem for the germans; so i always invade as German vichy; his ships are important but dont know if you conquer vichy they scuttle dont think German can take it; even the BRITS know what to do (sink it)
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paulderynck
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by paulderynck »

Not sure how Vichy can get its navy into the Atlantic if Gibraltar is CW controlled. Properly played by the Allies, the Vichy navy will only consist of the BBs, all the rest will be FF or OoS in Equatorial Africa if that goes Vichy.

Only attacks on the French homeland and Corsica will make Vichy hostile. (There's another rule about destroying their units when Vichy is created, but I've never seen that done because doing so is dumb.)

Vichy doesn't cooperate with any Axis units and can't enter any territory that is not Vichy or enemy controlled. If not hostile, all Vichy ships must RTB at turn end. Usually the Vichy installer is Germany which is loath to take enough naval moves to get the Vichy ships out. The few naval moves are used first for subs. Any combats with Vichy while not hostile are supposed to cause a roll for Vichy unit defection.

So Vichy is a paper tiger.
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jboldt007
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RE: Vichy and conq France primer

Post by jboldt007 »

Thanks for comments on Vichy ships and triggering hostility. Allies
Misjudged Vichy potency- although Vichy ended up with too many ships.
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