Directive 21 anyone?

[spinecruncher]

Does anyone have experience with this scenario? The PO is Soviet so I would think it is a great single player game as Axis. There are a few different eastern front scenarios but given the PO is scripted well for Soviets I would think it a superior choice as Axis single player.

[jzardos]

I would possibly be interested in axis in Directive 21. Need to get a bit more familiar with the game mechanics. Never played TOAW.

[Meyer1]

D21 sure it's a great scenario, but definitely NOT recommended for beginners. It's on the big side of the scale.

[spinecruncher]

I have just been sampling several diff scenarios to get some flavour. So I also fired up Poland as allied and it took about an hour for Axis turn 1. I can imagine then how long Samsung Galaxy PO move would take in Dir 21. are there any preferences to set to help the PO turns proceed more rapidly? There are supposed to be 10 rounds I know but in the Poland scenario following each combat exchange the game paused for me to check the box. Can that be bypassed?

[Cfant]

Well, you can find an AAR for D21 here(TOAW III). It's in german, but lots of pictures. We shared one save-file and everyone of us got one Heeresgruppe. Didn't last too long, but maybe you can get an idea, if it is interesting for you.

http://www.si-games.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28110

[IainF]

D21 is a cracking scenario for a single player game, it does take a while to get through a turn but well worth the effort.

Jzardos - don't think it is set up for 2 players though (with one as the Sovs).

[spinecruncher]

IS there anyway to get through the long ass PO turns? do they need to get broken up w PO combat reports? I do like the fact of a PO rather than just AI. There should be a list of games with PO.

[Cfant]

ORIGINAL: ballyhoo

IS there anyway to get through the long ass PO turns? do they need to get broken up w PO combat reports? I do like the fact of a PO rather than just AI. There should be a list of games with PO.

Your wish shall come true: tm.asp?m=4378959

[sPzAbt653]

IanF is correct, D21 is not designed for two player, it is only for the Axis Human vs. the Computer. Now I guess some of you would think this is stupid, so let me explain.
The Fire in the East scenario [FitE] is the best you can get when it comes to the East Front, not just in TOAW, but in all of games there is no comparison. [And now for TOAW IV there is a FitE2] !!
However, there is no PO, it is two player only. Therefore, after discussions with the FitE Team, it was agreed that Rick [TPOO] and I should make a FitE scenario with a PO that was just different enough from FitE to avoid hassles with pre-2006 TOAW issues [please don't ask, just accept it].
Therefore, if you want two player East Front action, FitE is your game. For solitaire go D21. I will also mention that while D21 is designed for play against the Soviet PO, the Axis do have a PO that was installed for playtest purposes. So, while not optimal, the Axis will come at you if you really want to take on playing as the Soviet side.

[TPOO]

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

IanF is correct, D21 is not designed for two player, it is only for the Axis Human vs. the Computer. Now I guess some of you would think this is stupid, so let me explain.
The Fire in the East scenario [FitE] is the best you can get when it comes to the East Front, not just in TOAW, but in all of games there is no comparison. [And now for TOAW IV there is a FitE2] !!
However, there is no PO, it is two player only. Therefore, after discussions with the FitE Team, it was agreed that Rick [TPOO] and I should make a FitE scenario with a PO that was just different enough from FitE to avoid hassles with pre-2006 TOAW issues [please don't ask, just accept it].
Therefore, if you want two player East Front action, FitE is your game. For solitaire go D21. I will also mention that while D21 is designed for play against the Soviet PO, the Axis do have a PO that was installed for playtest purposes. So, while not optimal, the Axis will come at you if you really want to take on playing as the Soviet side.

Unfortunately I only programmed the Axis PO for about 35 turns and stopped as it was mainly set up for testing events and not for actual game play. An Axis PO would also need to change objective tracks at this point and would need BIAS influence adjustments which are not programed in. The main problem with an AXIS PO is also that it bypasses to many Soviet units on its advance with this size of a map.

[sPzAbt653]

The first time I typed that up I had credited you with putting in an Axis PO, but then I thought about it and seemed to remember that it wasn't a 'full PO' so I changed my statement [:)]
Problem with the Axis is they have not enough units to cover such a front, and Elmer would be in quick trouble. We need to make a second version for Soviet Human vs. Axis PO that breaks down the Axis units further [to give the PO more units to work with]. [;)]

[spinecruncher]

Elmer" Great. So when we play single player, sometimes we are playing against Elmer, and sometimes we are just playing a stock AI. in D 21, we face Elmer for 35 turns, which would be to around Typhoon? Then it is stock AI?

It would be great to have a scenario list that included Elmer.

[sPzAbt653]

You did completely misunderstand, I believe. We were discussing a possible AXIS PO for D21. The Soviet PO is full on and will give you a go.

[Tamas]

By the way, if the whole East Front war is your thing, but D21 is just a bit too detailed for your taste, there is also TGW 1941-1945. It has just been updated by sPzAbt653 in the scenario forum:
tm.asp?m=4382985

[Meyer1]

ORIGINAL: Tamas

By the way, if the whole East Front war is your thing, but D21 is just a bit too detailed for your taste, there is also TGW 1941-1945. It has just been updated by sPzAbt653 in the scenario forum:
tm.asp?m=4382985

Also "Eastern front 1941-1945", the designer said:

ORIGINAL: governato

`Eastern Front 41-45' plays well vs the Axis or Russian AI even if at 200 turns long is best suited as PBEM.

You may want to edit the "Scenario list by designer recommendation (AI and/or PBEM)" thread [:)]

[spinecruncher]

My point is the distinction bw stock AI, and Elmer (PO). my understanding is that there is a more scripted PO (Elmer) in DIR 21 which last for 35 turns, and past that Elmer becomes stock AI. I am referring to Soviet.
Is there not a distinction bw PO and stock AI?

[sPzAbt653]

No, you are completely wrong again. You make a lot of harsh statements that are unfounded, you are very unknowledgeable. You know nothing about Directive 21 and should not even offer any statements on it. Po and AI has been explained already in several threads. I can't help you if you have no intention of absorbing any studies.

[spinecruncher]

Omg I was not trying to be harsh. I just thought there was a more scripted AI in Dir 21. How was I being harsh? So is all AI the same then? Excuse me for living.

And you are correct, I am not very knowledgeable. I am attracted to a lot of diff Matrix titles and unfortunately have become a master of none. Same thing with TOAW 4, there are so many great looking scenarios including DIR 21, I do not know where to begin.

[TPOO]

ORIGINAL: ballyhoo

Omg I was not trying to be harsh. I just thought there was a more scripted AI in Dir 21. How was I being harsh? So is all AI the same then? Excuse me for living.

And you are correct, I am not very knowledgeable. I am attracted to a lot of diff Matrix titles and unfortunately have become a master of none. Same thing with TOAW 4, there are so many great looking scenarios including DIR 21, I do not know where to begin.

I know it has been explained elsewhere but I will add my 2 cents for those that are not totally grasping this concept.
The AI (Artificial Intelligence or Elmer) is built into the game. It can be part of every scenario created in TOAW 4. The PO (programmed opponent) is the scenario designer adding objectives, objective tracks, events, telling Elmer what to do in a given scenario. Every scenario has a PO to some degree or it can not be valid. PBEM scenarios basically do not have Elmer programmed to do anything for either side as there is usually only 1 objective per formation. Directive 21 has only the Soviet side programmed and is programmed as such throughout the length of the scenario more or less to simulate the war on the eastern front as it occurred.

[spinecruncher]

I am grasping now. Somehow I misunderstood who Elmer is.