Opportunity for DW2 now that Stellaris just shot itself in the foot

[Lucian]

ORIGINAL: Osito

Regarding Stellaris, the change has not yet been implemented, but it will still be possible to run an older version with warp. Regardless of that personally, I've returned to DW:U already.

Yes, me too. Stellaris still has enormous problems, particularly with warfare (where DW always effortlessly outclassed it) but their "solution" to gut all the asymmetric FTL methods down to only starlanes of all things is just not acceptable for me. I didn't buy a starlane-based game from Paradox and I wont be playing one in the future. Sticking with 1.8.3 is really not acceptable either because there will still be a huge plethora of never-fixed bugs, existing mods will no longer be updated and new mods will be useless.

Stellaris still does a couple of things clearly better than DW...

1/ Race customization and diversity. No doubt about it, still by far the king in this area.
2/ Exploration and the resulting missions and side-quests.

A week ago I would have also added FTL diversity to that list too but now that its being scrapped because they cant seem to think of any other way to solve their (admittedly huge) gameplay problems other than to completely rip out one of their most iconic and unique core features, DW is looking far more attractive again and I've already started another game.

[Japhet]

Stellaris still does a couple of things clearly better than DW...

1/ Race customization and diversity. No doubt about it, still by far the king in this area.
2/ Exploration and the resulting missions and side-quests.

No, just no. Stellaris is only better at race customization because DW doesn't really has race customization. However, the pre-existing races of DW still offer more diversity in gameplay than Stellaris: None of the trait choices, ethics, governments or even appearence matters. It's all window dressing. Even hive minds or machine empires don't play radical different from normal empires. Hell, you can argue that hive minds are worse, because they don't have two mechanics (happiness and inner empire factions) that normal empires have. The only thing in race customization that really affected gameplay in a meaningful way was the different FTL-drives. Go figure...

And exploration and side quests? Well, kinda. Exploration is indeed the best part of Stellaris but in the long run, it doesn't matter that much because none of the stuff you can find is really a game changer. And the quests and missions are just glorified pop-ups, just like in EU or CK. They are mostly there to "shake things up" or to "topple the status quo". After all, we can't have the player have a trouvle-free time running their empire, THAT would be boring!! And after you have read them a couple of times, you simply skip over the text and click on the button that provides the best outcome, no matter how well written (read: full of references to better franchises that only TRUE scifi fans like us understand) it is.

Stellaris is an utter unsalvageable mess, developed by a bunch of incompetent people. Their only solution to fix gameplay issues is to throw in more numbers (consumer goods), to pile on more poorly thought out mechanics (factions) or, worst of all, gimping or flat out removing core features (ship design, ftl). It's kinda amusing how every dev dairy these guys have released starts with the phrase "I was always unsatisfied/unhappy/disappointed with..." But remember kids: "Stellaris is a great game and it will only get better! Paradox games are like fine wine, they only get better with time! (also more expensive but pssssh)"

Also, Martin Anward, Stellaris' game director, is kind of a dick.

Rant over.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Japhet
Stellaris is an utter unsalvageable mess, developed by a bunch of incompetent people.

[snip]

Also, Martin Anward, Stellaris' game director, is kind of a dick.

This is not cool, Japhet. Discussing Stellaris is ok, but just like personal attacks are not allowed on our forum against other forum members, they're not allowed against people outside the forum too.

Whatever your opinion of Stellaris, please phrase it in a civil and constructive way and do not confuse criticism of the game with criticism of the people making the game. I've been on the other side of that enough times and I don't want to encourage it here against other devs.

I've kept this discussion here, because it also touched on whether DW2 would change its FTL, instead of moving it up to General Discussions as we usually do with thread discussing other games. I will lock it though if the discussion can't remain polite.

Regards,

- Erik

[ASHBERY76]

Strange hate.Stellaris is the biggest and most played space 4x ever for a reason.

[Menzoberranzan]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Japhet
Stellaris is an utter unsalvageable mess, developed by a bunch of incompetent people.

[snip]

Also, Martin Anward, Stellaris' game director, is kind of a dick.

This is not cool, Japhet. Discussing Stellaris is ok, but just like personal attacks are not allowed on our forum against other forum members, they're not allowed against people outside the forum too.

Whatever your opinion of Stellaris, please phrase it in a civil and constructive way and do not confuse criticism of the game with criticism of the people making the game. I've been on the other side of that enough times and I don't want to encourage it here against other devs.

I've kept this discussion here, because it also touched on whether DW2 would change its FTL, instead of moving it up to General Discussions as we usually do with thread discussing other games. I will lock it though if the discussion can't remain polite.

Regards,

- Erik

I'm not sure how else you would, somewhat politely, refer to a developer that called critics of bad voice acting (aka his customers), misogynists.

[Menzoberranzan]

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Strange hate.Stellaris is the biggest and most played space 4x ever for a reason.

Yes, and when patch 1.9 is implemented, it won't be... for a reason.

[solops]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

It's not changing. [8D]

Thank goodness! I'll give the new Stellaris a try, but it will never be more than second best for me, ESPECIALLY with the FTL change to starlanes. Polaris Sector beats it like a drum in that category.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Menzoberranzan
I'm not sure how else you would, somewhat politely, refer to a developer that called critics of bad voice acting (aka his customers), misogynists.

Frankly, I don't know anything about this, but this thread and this forum are not the place to discuss the Stellaris devs on any personal level. If you'd like to discuss Stellaris in more detail, that should go in our General Discussion forum, as long as the discussion is focused on the game itself.

Discussions about the Stellaris devs, in my opinion, would be best posted on their own forum where the Stellaris devs can respond.

Regards,

- Erik

[Lucian]

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Stellaris is the biggest and most played space 4x ever.

Citation required, I strongly suspect that MOO 2 would beg to differ.

I loved the way that Stellaris provided multiple FTL options to allow the player great freedom in choosing exactly how their race would play in the game with each playing very differently. But that's all about to get dumbed down to only starlanes now right? Just like a dozen other depressingly mediocre starlane-only 4x space games that infest the genre like weeds.

So what's so strange about people being upset about a game they bought and paid for, abruptly having one of its most distinctive core features completely gutted, not in early access, but in a fully mature product which originally used asymmetric FTL as a major selling point?

The equivalent would be if Matrix announced that to solve gameplay problems they're scrapping the automation options in DW so that all players are forced to play only one way. And not with DW2 but with DW1 that we already own. I dont think many customers would be particularly happy with that decision either. And rightly so.

[Dipluz]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Menzoberranzan
I'm not sure how else you would, somewhat politely, refer to a developer that called critics of bad voice acting (aka his customers), misogynists.

Frankly, I don't know anything about this, but this thread and this forum are not the place to discuss the Stellaris devs on any personal level. If you'd like to discuss Stellaris in more detail, that should go in our General Discussion forum, as long as the discussion is focused on the game itself.

Discussions about the Stellaris devs, in my opinion, would be best posted on their own forum where the Stellaris devs can respond.

Regards,

- Erik

Maybe its time for you guys to start releasing some info about the next game. And start building some Hype!

[&o]

[Cauldyth]

Maybe its time for you guys to start releasing some info about the next game. And start building some Hype!

Idle keyboards are the devil's plaything. If we had some meaty DW2 information to talk about, we'd stop causing so much trouble! [:D]

(I know, I know, you aren't ready to share anything yet...)

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
Idle keyboards are the devil's plaything. If we had some meaty DW2 information to talk about, we'd stop causing so much trouble! [:D]

Ok, I can confirm DW2 includes not only Ekarus Meat, but also Oksunum Steak, which is great with some Norjak Eggs and Muurion Wine. [;)]

Regards,

- Erik

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
Idle keyboards are the devil's plaything. If we had some meaty DW2 information to talk about, we'd stop causing so much trouble! [:D]

Ok, I can confirm DW2 includes not only Ekarus Meat, but also Oksunum Steak, which is great with some Norjak Eggs and Muurion Wine. [;)]

Regards,

- Erik

[:D]

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
Idle keyboards are the devil's plaything. If we had some meaty DW2 information to talk about, we'd stop causing so much trouble! [:D]

Ok, I can confirm DW2 includes not only Ekarus Meat, but also Oksunum Steak, which is great with some Norjak Eggs and Muurion Wine. [;)]

Regards,

- Erik

What, no veggies. [:D]....GP

[Osito]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
Idle keyboards are the devil's plaything. If we had some meaty DW2 information to talk about, we'd stop causing so much trouble! [:D]

Ok, I can confirm DW2 includes not only Ekarus Meat, but also Oksunum Steak, which is great with some Norjak Eggs and Muurion Wine. [;)]

Regards,

- Erik

Now you're just playing with your food, Erik!

[RogerBacon]

ORIGINAL: General Patton

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
Idle keyboards are the devil's plaything. If we had some meaty DW2 information to talk about, we'd stop causing so much trouble! [:D]

Ok, I can confirm DW2 includes not only Ekarus Meat, but also Oksunum Steak, which is great with some Norjak Eggs and Muurion Wine. [;)]

Regards,

- Erik

What, no veggies. [:D]....GP

Vegetarians don't make it to the stars.

[SaltiMilk]

ORIGINAL: Osito

The post was intended to be a bit tongue in cheek, although I guess that doesn't come across too well in writing.

Saltimik (I'm surprised you didn't call yourself SaltiOsito ), you must have access to some statistics I don't have, as it's not clear to me whether a large majority support the change, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's a majority. However, regardless of that, it seems likely to me that there is a significant number of people who just don't like hyperlanes, and will be very happy to see DW continue with the warp systems (and other ftl systems, if possible).

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just me and a handful of salty old codgers who care about it.

Yeah there has been a fair amount of polls about the change. Between 75-85% of people who actively partake in the community seems to support the changes. Who knows about peoples opinion beyond the community though. They have no clue about whats gonna hit them [8|]

[Dipluz]

Well I still do have fun with DW:U to this day, and I have played it on and off since the original. There is almost no game where I can dominate a galaxy and relax to tv series at the same time, and still be challenged from time to time. I know content is not something a developer can magically create, unless you have had a lot of time and bounced a lot of ideas back and forth. Though my biggest wish is actually a 64-bit engine to remove the out of memory problems for large games, and maybe also that the game can utilize multiple cores. Except for that any new content is super welcome.

[Cauldyth]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
Idle keyboards are the devil's plaything. If we had some meaty DW2 information to talk about, we'd stop causing so much trouble! [:D]

Ok, I can confirm DW2 includes not only Ekarus Meat, but also Oksunum Steak, which is great with some Norjak Eggs and Muurion Wine. [;)]

Regards,

- Erik

Mmmm, xenomeat!

[Lecivius]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Cauldyth
Idle keyboards are the devil's plaything. If we had some meaty DW2 information to talk about, we'd stop causing so much trouble! [:D]

Ok, I can confirm DW2 includes not only Ekarus Meat, but also Oksunum Steak, which is great with some Norjak Eggs and Muurion Wine. [;)]

Regards,

- Erik

Uhhmm...cooked in Virgin Olivary Oil