Assuming 41 Barb is coming...pre-planning and placement

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jjdenver
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Assuming 41 Barb is coming...pre-planning and placement

Post by jjdenver »

Thoughts on Soviet defense:
which SU forts are worth building when facing a 41 Barb?
Sevastopol: stick a 4-1 GAR there to join the MIL that will pop up?
Leningrad: pre-place any units in the swamp hex west of Leningrad? Which units?
Hero cities: Which ones and what do you put there? Pskov? Rostov? Dnepropetrovsk? others?
oil: pre-place and in which cities? Leningrad? Stalingrad? Sevastopol? Archangelsk? others?
HQ's in place to flip RES MIL? Which and where?
HQ's where do you want them to be at start of Barb 41?
Screen Odessa - worth it?
Synth - worth building in Urals to fuel all of those factories you'll put there? By JA 42 I'm guessing most Soviets will have lost access to Caucasus oil and many other resources
planes - build only FTR2 prior to Barb? What year to start building LND2/3? 42? 43?
lend lease planes: 8 range P-40 to SU or CW or CH?

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RE: Assuming 41 Barb is coming...pre-planning and placement

Post by Shannon V. OKeets »

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

Thoughts on Soviet defense:
which SU forts are worth building when facing a 41 Barb?
Sevastopol: stick a 4-1 GAR there to join the MIL that will pop up?
Leningrad: pre-place any units in the swamp hex west of Leningrad? Which units?
Hero cities: Which ones and what do you put there? Pskov? Rostov? Dnepropetrovsk? others?
oil: pre-place and in which cities? Leningrad? Stalingrad? Sevastopol? Archangelsk? others?
HQ's in place to flip RES MIL? Which and where?
HQ's where do you want them to be at start of Barb 41?
Screen Odessa - worth it?
Synth - worth building in Urals to fuel all of those factories you'll put there? By JA 42 I'm guessing most Soviets will have lost access to Caucasus oil and many other resources
planes - build only FTR2 prior to Barb? What year to start building LND2/3? 42? 43?
lend lease planes: 8 range P-40 to SU or CW or CH?

I am reluctant to give away all my ideas on this. However, ...

Placing a fort in a forest so the Germans can't use Blitz is very attractive. Tactical halved and Assault CRT can make taking a hex from less than 3 hexsides painful.
Steve

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Centuur
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RE: Assuming 41 Barb is coming...pre-planning and placement

Post by Centuur »

Most things you are suggesting are possilities. That's to say: forget about the SYNTH. It's too expensive and if Germany gets the Baku oil fields the USSR is usually done for.

Think about the Soviet front in a tactical way. Use movement to get out of the range of the Stuka's as much you can. Odessa should be screened, so you can get the factory out of there. Leningrad gets a nice big garrison (Leningard MIL, AA Gun and a white print GAR), so if Germany wants to take it, it has to burn an offensive to do so. What cities to become hero cities depends on how things are turning out. Every plan seems to go wrong at some point...
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Dabrion
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RE: Assuming 41 Barb is coming...pre-planning and placement

Post by Dabrion »

ORIGINAL: jjdenver
Sevastopol: stick a 4-1 GAR there to join the MIL that will pop up?
Yes for sure, bp GAR and the MIL is usually enough. Good base for your Tupolevs to threaten Ploesti (makes GE have a fighter there)
ORIGINAL: jjdenver
Leningrad: pre-place any units in the swamp hex west of Leningrad? Which units?
You will not have that many units to play with. If anything I would guard the swamps and rail north of Leningrad to stay connected to Murmansk. You want 2wp corps + Eng/Ski in there. Not sure you can hold the surounding area if you play the Scandinavia map (probably not).
ORIGINAL: jjdenver
Hero cities: Which ones and what do you put there? Pskov? Rostov? Dnepropetrovsk? others?
Only swamp and mountain cities are worth holding on to. Rostov, Leningrad and Sevastopol are the fortress cities that stand a decent chance to buy you some time. They are worth keeping alive, all others will not last long. Hero city is Russian for graveyard.. flawed concept.
ORIGINAL: jjdenver
oil: pre-place and in which cities? Leningrad? Stalingrad? Sevastopol? Archangelsk? others?
HQ's in place to flip RES MIL? Which and where?
HQ's where do you want them to be at start of Barb 41?
Your reserves will pop up in the cities close to the Don. Place your HQs appropriately.
ORIGINAL: jjdenver
Screen Odessa - worth it?
Only cheap units that you will consider dead once placed there. You want to rail the factory, nothing else.
ORIGINAL: jjdenver
Synth - worth building in Urals to fuel all of those factories you'll put there? By JA 42 I'm guessing most Soviets will have lost access to Caucasus oil and many other resources
planes - build only FTR2 prior to Barb? What year to start building LND2/3? 42? 43?
lend lease planes: 8 range P-40 to SU or CW or CH?
SYNTH to expensive. Caucasus oil should be accessible with CPs in the Caspian Sea (I would place all CPs there if I smell a
41 Barb). Rail factories to Tiflis, Yerevan and Baku first, then to Murmansk, then remainder to Siberia. Oil stack are good in Leningrad, Murmansk and Moskow, as you might hold on to them for longer than they have access to resources.

Optimally you want to match the Axis fighters. Realistically you want 4 decent fighters from the 40/41 pool and then keep up producing 1PIL and have the Wallies send in their superior hardware to Murmansk, where you receive it with your pilots. Every FTR 5 factors and up is decent, range is the most important stat though, as you want them to be rebase as far behind as possible after use (assuming you are retreating). Don't build Sturmoviks until you think you can turn the table on GE.
"If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." ~ Georgy Zhukov
jjdenver
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RE: Assuming 41 Barb is coming...pre-planning and placement

Post by jjdenver »

Thx, it seems fort hexes are a secret, if anyone wants to pop in with some good places worth spending 2,4,5 BP's on a fort (maybe there are none?) please do so.

I doubt that a good German is going to let the Soviets rail a fact into Murmansk on the 4th impulse using MWIFmap, or for that matter even on the 1st or 2nd imp of Barb. So is it worth keeping many units up there or just a couple of corps in Murmansk itself to allow the Brits to build LL AC and drop them into the city?

I'm guessing that SU can rail a fact into Archangelsk if it does so soon enough. Is that worthwhile? Then it can at least get I think 1(?) BP per turn maybe 3 turns per year from CW that way and CW can ship in enough oil to keep the SU fact producing year round I think (i.e. stockpile 3 or 4 oil in the city during summer to keep it running all winter. Does this make sense or I'm missing something?



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Centuur
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RE: Assuming 41 Barb is coming...pre-planning and placement

Post by Centuur »

With the MWIF map, Murmansk needs to get a factory (or two) railed into before you rail factories to the Caucasian area. A couple of strategically placed CAV can provide the necessary defense against Finnish Ski troops cutting the railroad in the first turn of the war. The second turn, usually sees the Finns cutting of the railroad.

And you should have enough time to send factories to Baku and Tiflis after that, since I've never seen a German player cutting of the railroads into the Caucasus in the first summer of the war.

Defending in the USSR means two things: save your precious factories and try to get out of range of the Stuka's with the bulk of your army. Make your front just out of the Stuka's range and you can hold, until the Luftwaffe catches up. Than it's back to marching again.
Hero cities in itself is not a good defense. You should match it to the way the frontlines are changing. How fast is Germany advancing? Can I, by making a city a hero city, make sure the frontline will stall for an impulse because Germany needs to take the city before they can advance further along that part of the front? A "hero" city should have some meaning. Simply leaving units in Minsk so you make a stand is not something I would do. I rather run away and fight at a later day. Now, places like Leningrad (which needs a garrison at start), Rostov and Sevastopol are different. If you save some oil in there, and have a garrison in those cities the moment they become within reach for the Axis to grab them. Not sooner, since I rather have as much land units as possible at my disposal to stop the German army if they move out of Stuka range...

Personally, I build a Pilot and FTR every turn before war starts and spend the rest on cheap infantry and CAV units, together with the HQ's of course. I also like to put a pilot in a TB-3 if it's sitting around in the reserve pool (with that range and all the possibilies that plane has got, it's a real asset, even for defense).
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RE: Assuming 41 Barb is coming...pre-planning and placement

Post by AlbertN »

Airforce pre-Barbarossa is not exactly what you'd want to buy en-mass. There are 2 factors - one that has been pointed out is that you keep out of their Stuka range (which usually also mean out of their FTR range - or if Germany brings forth their FTRs it's still +1 / -1 lottery or +2 / -2 with you fighting on your friendly grounds. Helps with the Pilot). The main problem is that most of Soviet FTRs have crap range like the Axis one. You use them, they're grounded. And they may remain grounded for the turn whole (unless you can reorg them via a HQ but then your HQ is turned face down).
The few FTRs needed are just to make sure lonely long range bomber does not come pay you visit freely on your armoured units.
As long as the front is mobile Soviet short range planes risk to get caught on the ground after their flight.

Synth - I've seen it done, usually on Turn1 or so - it's an extra resource for your factories, or extra oil. It will help even more so if Japanese try to steal your eastern resources.

Usually Soviets get in a war with Japan anyhow so to build their MILs - that can be used as road blockers due to the ZoC. Due to that fact I've seen some Germans moving of 4 hexes from their Poland borderline in May / Jun; as the Soviets merrily immolated GARRs and MILs for that. (In that game the Soviets held the Dnepr line + Dnepr City and up north til the Ladoga Lake with an isolated Leningrad - the front "froze" up to late '43 there. I am just a watcher of friends playing this game).

Forts - seen them used depending on your plan and your level of confidence. In a game I am currently in Leningrad has been fortified. In the one I mentioned above Dnepr-City has been fortified on the non-river side; and the forest between Smolensk and the Swamp hex got a fort too. (Though by now I play with Vassal, there are also useful NKVD divisions that can stem the German advances too).

Equip your LND4 with a Pilot - that's for certain. Keep your bombers operational, do not try to ground strike German troops. The threat to bring 6+ combat factors via bombers wherever the German attacks is relevant. And just make sure to retreat in ways you cannot get encircled or pinned down. The only "big risk" you have that was is that if Germany ends May / June -and- starts Jul / Aug.

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Dabrion
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RE: Assuming 41 Barb is coming...pre-planning and placement

Post by Dabrion »

ad fort counters: I don't believe in facilities, I would rather have more units on the board instead.

I you really want to build a fort, think about the non-river hexsides of Leningrad and Rostov, the Smolensk-Vitebsk Area (works better on the new maps) and maybe Moscow or Grozny. The thing about fort hexes is that you need units to cover their flanks and to reinforce them and to air cover them, etc. Meaning they are good for static defensive lines with a secure back field (rare commodity for Russia in a '41 B-Day!). In the end unit density is always worth more than a tough hex or two.
"If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there." ~ Georgy Zhukov
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