8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

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Telemecus
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by Telemecus »

Thanks and do understand.

We have to be careful that at the end of the day this is a voluntary leisure activity so nobody can make anyone else to play or not play. So whatever our roles in the game, about the game we have no special roles at all - we are all equal.

M60A3TTS, I know you were not individually responsible for the Soviet rule infringements so I do understand you have the right to hold a line. There are others in exactly the same situation, there was no penalisation of the rules broken before and it is a big ask to someone to give their free time to a game in which things passed, and feel they have done nothing wrong and are now being penalised. It can be asked for as a favour, or with the enticement of an interesting and fun game in future. I think most people will try to make an effort to find a solution when someone feels aggrieved. It cannot be coerced.

I would like to broker something that is good enough for as many people as possible to continue the game. Personally I do think the approach of exactly matching what was lost, and more to make it detrimental to the infringing side was a good one as it would avoid all arguments about whether it left someone off the hook or was being used for advantage. If anyone thinks there is any way to make that work let us know. If there is no common place we want to play at, then we are at an impasse.

At the end of the day a game can only occur if a group mutually consent to it. Any individual has the possibility of exit at any time. There are no votes because it needs the unanimity of all who participate. So long as there is one person on one side who has one password, someone on the other side with the other password, and one of them has the save file, then a game, or many forked games, can continue. Without it you have none.

If we cannot find some formula that all can agree to then we simply have to fork the game. We'll have one with frozen armies and one with whatever other solution might work. I will volunteer for both and everyone can choose to do both or either. Maybe everyone will in the end agree to one and we will go with that. Maybe we can work together to persuade others to go with just one of them. Or we can allow others to join or agree to rule changes to have smaller teams. Obviously it will be harder for both to carry on rather than just one.

The reality is there may have been people on each side who would have gone with both or either possibility but would now prefer to go with neither. I have been able to recruit others to the game as a replacements before. But there is not a fun proposition at the moment to attract anyone. We can see what happens but it may be we have to pause otherwise. Maybe some would like to continue this as a solo game with someone on the other side. There is always the possibility of some in future being able to carry this on, some version of it, or different forks of it. And there is another team game we can involve ourselves in. So possibilities will always remain.
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EwaldvonKleist
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by EwaldvonKleist »

I will say "yes" to freezing, opening of AARs or no penalty at all, whatever is chosen.
It would be sad if the game ends for this reason or if team relations are spoiled in any way.
The Soviet team in the past repeatedly violated the no partisans resupply rule, so its 1:1.
And I am willing to assume no ill will of the Axis side of course.
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M60A3TTS
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by M60A3TTS »

Ok, I will agree to you sharing your thread if it includes your coming half of this turn.

That's pretty much my final offer.
Lictuel
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by Lictuel »

Just for the record: I'm fine with either of the posted solutions.

Fact is it is impossible for us to judge if anyone from either side has had a look at one of the threads. In theory one could simply visit the forum without signing in and read everything without real traces. I'd have preferred to have some kind of solution like slack / discord or something for each team. That way it would be way way harder to listen in on the plannings of the teams. Also maybe something like that is a possible solution to prevent such issues going forward.

Of course that means someone would have to set such a system up. Using PMs is a possibility as well but at least to me the PMs feel a bit unwieldy but they are secret so...
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Telemecus
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by Telemecus »

Many thanks M60A3TTS! I know how significant what you said is. I did want to make sure the whole team knew about it so I could give an answer for all. One of our team though was last in contact by message in an airport lounge after a long distance flight and before transferring to the next one so it may be a while before they know. So please do not think a delay in responding is a rebuff!
ORIGINAL: Lictuel
slack / discord... Using PMs is a possibility as well but at least to me the PMs feel a bit unwieldy but they are secret so...

I did actually contact a moderator to ask if we could voluntarily ban ourselves from a particular thread. I do not know if this is possible, or even if moderators would be happy to do such requests for single games. I was also thinking whether the software that can prevent you clicking on to certain sites could be used to prevent us clicking on a particular thread. Although that would not help if we log in from another computer for instance at an internet cafe. Anything that can guard us from being only one click away from the other forum would be a benefit to us all.

Lictuel, I remember you mentioned Slack before. I checked it out then and tried to again now. But none of the material explains easily what it is. The description seems to imply it is something like an instant messaging client like google chat or MSN messenger. Is there any place that gives a good explanation - preferably with pictures?

The problem with the matrix PM system is that it does not allow messages to more than five people, so already I cannot send a message to the whole Soviet team plus reserves and copy myself. Also it lacks the structure of a forum or file system where single items can be stored for repeated use. Searching through scattered messages is always messy. Also if the material is structured it can always be copied easily to an AAR in the matrix forums after the game has finished.

A nice to have, perhaps, is when users outside the game can visit and interact. Would Slack/Discord be something like a place you could go to by clicking a link on your current forum thread, visitors can request access, and you can decided who does or does not get to view?

Perhaps also we should not worry about the nice to haves but just solve the issue at hand.
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Telemecus
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by Telemecus »

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
I did actually contact a moderator to ask if we could voluntarily ban ourselves from a particular thread. I do not know if this is possible, or even if moderators would be happy to do such requests for single games.

A moderator did very kindly get back to me on this. They said they could not stop click throughs to read forum threads. But they could retitle, pin or move a forum thread. I think the pinning would not stop the STAVKA thread becoming the first option on AARs on the war in the East forum page every time someone made a post there - although if I got that wrong let us know. There is the option though that the team forum could be moved to another forum section. Possibly not within the War in the East area for now - although it could be moved back after the end of the game. I guess it is still possible to leave a pinned message in the AAR section to let those outside the game who wish to visit to know where it is or even when a new message has been posted there? If not in the AAR section or even War in the East then at least it would not be one click away from being viewed. If any of this is useful to the soviet team let me know and I can forward the moderators PM for you to contact them.

I am quite impressed that a staff/moderator is offering to help on this. I also hope it shows some kudos to the players on the game and the contributions they have made elsewhere, and also to the concept of a team game we have pursued.
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SparkleyTits
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by SparkleyTits »

Discord would be a great idea I think!

We have been using emailing a lot in our other 8 player game but I think discord would be a step up on that
Lictuel
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by Lictuel »

Lictuel, I remember you mentioned Slack before. I checked it out then and tried to again now. But none of the material explains easily what it is. The description seems to imply it is something like an instant messaging client like google chat or MSN messenger. Is there any place that gives a good explanation - preferably with pictures?

It is somewhat like MSN messenger in that it is a chat client but you can have different "rooms" bots etc pp. I only brought it up because we use it @work and it can be very handy.

I think discord would be even better though since you can easily create chat channels there that only users with certain roles can enter. It would require someone to set one up though. I can look into this today.

One minor problem with that: one user will have to have admin rights and would in theory be able to access both teams channels. If I set up a server afaik I would have that power. Seeing how I'm part of the soviet team I would understand if people would be reluctant to go for this based on that potential issue. I can look into how that can be managed
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HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

I'm sorry guys, I read both sides of the AAR. I will put myself in timeout now ;-P
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
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Telemecus
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by Telemecus »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
Ok, I will agree to you sharing your thread if it includes your coming half of this turn.

Managed to get a few messages in to the last member of the team and am sure they are good to carry on. Can we say yes to your offer. I know it was a big issue so we do appreciate it. We will be updating everything up to and including the Axis part of turn 13. And indeed we feel we need to do better for you than this - it needs to have a lot more detail than it does now. My honest opinion at the moment is what is there now is not detrimental at all - and so just saying yes to that would be in bad faith. So there will also be posted all of the detailed team allocations for each turn and other items mentioned earlier in the thread, plus other items which the team used. I'll also be placing a lot of it in a folder in our game dropbox in advance so you can see it in raw data form before it is posted. As this is a substantial amount of work in itself, and probably is only something I can do from the team, it may take a bit of time to put it all down so would also ask for some patience.

The Soviet team should feel welcome to visit our forum from now - and indeed I hope you will be able to post there. You can continue to do so until we return the game file for turn 13 AND we have updated and uploaded all of this to our AAR for up to and including turn 13. I will post here when all of that is done.
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by Telemecus »

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits
Heya guys I have taken over the command of the Leningrad and northern fronts looking forward to playing with you all

Just realised you are not in the game dropbox that has been organised by lowsugar - all the other seven are. Let lowsugar know the email to add for you to have access.
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Lictuel
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by Lictuel »

I did setup a discord that we could use I prepared two chat channels for the teams (more can be added as needed) and setup some basic permissions.
Link is this one:
https://discord.gg/uXqrDbb

You do not need a client, discord can run in your browser. You will have to create a (free) account though.

So you guys can decide if you want to try it or not.
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by SparkleyTits »

Thanks Lictuel I have joined discord is incredibly handy it's much appreciated

Cheers Telemecus I will get onto Lowsugar now bud
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by SparkleyTits »

Guys if you haven't already I would definitely advise joining the discord Lictuel very graciously made for us all

Lictuel setting it up has been a godsend for me I have never learnt so much so quickly with such quick exchange of information
Plus with the way the servers work it means for easy and effective cordoning off of channels for each specific user and I also imagine it will hasten response times of us all talking, coordinating and exchanging significantly
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M60A3TTS
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by M60A3TTS »

I have not been that focused on this game during this intermission, but did take time today to read the Axis thread and see what was up on discord. Also got a general PM in to my team.

The next 5 turns will be interesting, no doubt.

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M60A3TTS
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by M60A3TTS »

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I'm sorry guys, I read both sides of the AAR. I will put myself in timeout now ;-P

Oh, now that I get to read the Axis thread, you decide to do a full disclosure. [:'(]


It's fine, there was no real advice given, so no harm done.
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EwaldvonKleist
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by EwaldvonKleist »

Thank you Lictuel for the discord thing. I believe we should go this way for the Soviet team.
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Telemecus
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by Telemecus »

End of Axis Turn 13 in dropbox

Please note we are still updating the AAR - it is a bigger job than even I realised going back to pull all the details out! I will post here when it is complete to our half of turn 13 - please do keep reading until then. Also comments and reactions are welcome, so do post there!

I will post further sections that are complete, but not in the right sequence to post in the AAR yet, up to the game dropbox as text and picture files. So by tomorrow you will also be able to see almost all sections there if not in the forums itself.
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HardLuckYetAgain
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by HardLuckYetAgain »

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I'm sorry guys, I read both sides of the AAR. I will put myself in timeout now ;-P

Oh, now that I get to read the Axis thread, you decide to do a full disclosure. [:'(]


It's fine, there was no real advice given, so no harm done.

These guys didn't need advice, least of all my 2 cents worth ;-)
German Turn 1 opening moves. The post that keeps on giving https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1&t=390004
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M60A3TTS
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RE: 8 player multiplayer - THREAD FOR BOTH SIDES

Post by M60A3TTS »

In case readers were wondering, this game is no +1 bonus and mild blizzard.
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