Blue Dawn, Where did I go wrong?

spinecruncher · Post by **spinecruncher** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:20 pm

I thought I understood what I was doing; had a good time, but we went wrong somewhere:

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LOSSES:
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1x PKMR 211 Chamsuri
7x Building (Medium)
4x AH-64E Apache [Longbow]
1x PKG 711 Yoon Young Ha [Gumdoksuri, PKM-K, PKG-A Class]
3x E-737 Wedgetail
1x FA-50 Golden Eagle
1x F-16DJ Blk 52 Falcon [KF-16D]
2x Infantry Section [7.62mm MG/Unguided Infantry Anti Tank Weapon]
1x F-16CJ Blk 52 Falcon [KF-16C]
1x Radar (RPS-42 TASRS [MHR])
1x P-3C Orion Update III+
1x Oshkosh NLOS Launch Vehicle

EXPENDITURES:
------------------
20x AGM-88B HARM
11x AGM-84K SLAMER-ATA
23x AIM-120B AMRAAM
26x AGM-65G2 Maverick IR
12x SSM-700K Hae Sung I
8x RGM-84D Harpoon IC
10x UGM-84D Harpoon IC
1200x 155mm/52 HE
24x LIG 130mm GMRLS [LOGIR]
16x Spike NLOS
572x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds]
63x RIM-66M-2 SM-2MR Blk IIIA
755x 40mm/60 Twin Bofors Burst [4 rnds]
16x DAGAIE Mk2 LEM Chaff
39x Generic Flare Salvo [3x Cartridges, Single Spectral]
2x AIM-9S Sidewinder
17x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
6x KP-SAM Shin-Gung
6x AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM P3I.2
40x AGM-114R Hellfire II
360x 155mm/52 HE Base Bleed
12x GBU-38(V)1/B JDAM [Mk82]
16x GBU-12D/B Paveway II LGB [Mk82]
8x A.184 Black Shark
10x SUT Mod 2
22x MIM-104F Patriot PAC-3 MSE
1141x 127mm/62 HE-CVT [HiFrag]
21x RIM-162A ESSM
329x 127mm/62 WP

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5/1/2018 12:18 AM: Score changed from 0 to 100. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Blue Scores 100 Points for Destroying Critical Target')

5/1/2018 12:19 AM: Score changed from 100 to 200. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Blue Scores 100 Points for Destroying Critical Target')

5/1/2018 12:23 AM: Score changed from 200 to 300. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Blue Scores 100 Points for Destroying Critical Target')

5/1/2018 12:23 AM: Score changed from 300 to 400. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Blue Scores 100 Points for Destroying Critical Target')

5/1/2018 12:24 AM: Score changed from 400 to 300. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea loses100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'South Korea loses 100 Points for lost unit')

5/1/2018 12:26 AM: Score changed from 300 to 200. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea loses100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'South Korea loses 100 Points for lost unit')

5/1/2018 12:27 AM: Score changed from 200 to 300. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Blue Scores 100 Points for Destroying Critical Target')

5/1/2018 12:29 AM: Score changed from 300 to 200. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea loses100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'South Korea loses 100 Points for lost unit')

5/1/2018 12:30 AM: Score changed from 200 to 100. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea loses100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'South Korea loses 100 Points for lost unit')

5/1/2018 12:30 AM: Score changed from 100 to 200. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Blue Scores 100 Points for Destroying Critical Target')

5/1/2018 12:31 AM: Score changed from 200 to 100. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea loses100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'South Korea loses 100 Points for lost unit')

5/1/2018 12:31 AM: Score changed from 100 to 200. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Blue Scores 100 Points for Destroying Critical Target')

5/1/2018 12:32 AM: Score changed from 200 to 300. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Blue Scores 100 Points for Destroying Critical Target')

5/1/2018 12:33 AM: Score changed from 300 to 200. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea loses100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'South Korea loses 100 Points for lost unit')

5/1/2018 12:33 AM: Score changed from 200 to 300. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Blue Scores 100 Points for Destroying Critical Target')

5/1/2018 12:33 AM: Score changed from 300 to 400. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'Blue Scores 100 Points for Destroying Critical Target')

5/1/2018 12:43 AM: Score changed from 400 to 300. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea loses100 Points' has been fired (part of Event: 'South Korea loses 100 Points for lost unit')

5/1/2018 12:51 AM: Score changed from 300 to 400. Reason: Event Action: 'South Korea Scores 100 Points' has been fired (part of E

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:40 pm

it looks like you lost too many units.

Raptorx7_slith · Post by **Raptorx7_slith** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:20 pm

You should not be losing 3 AWACS planes in that scenario, you can put one of those in South south Korea and still cover the AO. AWACS should be nowhere near any enemies.

ultradave · Post by **ultradave** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:14 pm

What he said ^^^ To amplify on that look at the radar range of those AWACS and put them somewhere that is safe. You don't want to lose them. I'm guessing that you probably had 3 on a 1/3 on station AEW patrol, and lost each one in turn as they went on station... somehow. Put them pretty far back. As a general note, depending on the threat, you might want to have a couple of fighters to escort them "just in case". Or at a minimum, make sure that their racetrack is screened by the other fighter activity farther forward so that any OPFOR aircraft won't have an easy path to go after them.

Vici Supreme · Post by **Vici Supreme** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:24 pm

I thinkt the three AWACS say it all. You lost way too much!

spinecruncher · Post by **spinecruncher** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:41 pm

How do I give an Awac fighter escort? Do i need to go to the formation editor? Thanks!

HalfLifeExpert · Post by **HalfLifeExpert** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:46 am

I was able to beat this with little more than the firepower available on the islands close to NK territory, Didn't need to use that much aircraft.

spinecruncher · Post by **spinecruncher** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:39 am

I made the mistake of too many targets not in the objectives

eleos · Post by **eleos** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:08 am

Looking at your casualties I asume that yoy used no tactics at all.
AEW's are always put far from the front (~150 nm) and if you want to have a better operational picture you shoyld deploy a CAP dedicated to AWACS protection.

ballyhoo you have to think what you should do in order to accompish your tasks with minimum casualties

SeaQueen · Post by **SeaQueen** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:11 pm

You don't need to put a fighter escort up. You just need to pull him back. Look at the radar range rings. They're HUGE. You can almost see the whole country from a comfortably safe distance. Set up a reasonable DCAP in front of it and it ought to be fine.

ORIGINAL: ballyhoo
How do I give an Awac fighter escort? Do i need to go to the formation editor? Thanks!

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:43 pm

as SQ says, detection is the least of your worries. SK/NK fight is a telephone booth, you can cover 80% of both countries without an AWACS.

keep in mind that you don't really need to cover everything- just NK's forward positions, if that. what's going on over mig alley isn't really of any interest to you so you can stick the AWACS nearly over the ocean and you're still golden.

mikmykWS · Post by **mikmykWS** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:38 pm

Yeah looks like you lost an Orion as well.

My suggestion is pause when you start. Evaluate your units particularly what's in the air or close to threat zones and then act on that by assigning missions or no fly zones etc. Then hit play.

Most of the time (IMHO) players tend to lose high-value support units when they lose track of them. The best way to not have to worry about it is to assign them to a mission early on where at least you'll have them anchored . This isn't to say the AI won't go after them or the designer didn't have a plan too but at least you'll be able to minimize the chance of just losing to losing track.

Hope this helps

Mike

ultradave · Post by **ultradave** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:16 pm

ORIGINAL: ballyhoo

How do I give an Awac fighter escort? Do i need to go to the formation editor? Thanks!

No. By escort I meant a CAP mission to protect them. Or as I said, if they are back far you don't usually need to do this. The fighters you have on missions up front will keep the bad guys occupied most likely

Here's an example. Make 2 reference points for the Awacs. Assign the Awacs to a AEW mission on those two points. They'll racetrack back and forth forever. Make a box on the toward the enemy side of the AWACS and assign a CAP mission to that. They'll intercept anything that comes after your AWACS. Just know the threat direction and make your box accordingly (of course you can always drag reference points around and change the shape of your box if you realize you need to adjust the coverage.

That's the bare basics. What you actually do will depend a lot on the scenario.

As others have mentioned for this one just put them waaaaay back and you'll have plenty of radar coverage. You shouldn't have to protect them.

HalfLifeExpert · Post by **HalfLifeExpert** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:34 pm

Yes this is true, but I also think it would be great to be able to assign escorts to a support mission. It makes logical sense that fighter pilots may receive orders to take off and protect this AEW aircraft.

SeaQueen · Post by **SeaQueen** » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:53 pm

I second that. When I start a scenario push the "start" button and then immediately pause it. That way I can see all the "auto-detected" stuff. Next, I take a long time looking at what I have and where it's located. From there I start planning. Planning to me is frequently done with a spreadsheet opened, because if I'm striking targets, timing matters and I want to make sure everything arrives in the right order. It makes no sense, for example, to have my SEAD missions arrive after the main mission targets are attacked. I want to draw down the air defenses first and then attack the things they're protecting. To control that I use the mission activation/deactivation times. It really helps a lot to think carefully through the problem carefully. After a while you end up having a pretty standard set of tactics, and you'll be able to quickly not just come up with individual missions, but a whole series of inter-related missions that arrive in the right order at a specified interval from multiple locations.

ORIGINAL: mikmyk
...
My suggestion is pause when you start. Evaluate your units particularly what's in the air or close to threat zones and then act on that by assigning missions or no fly zones etc. Then hit play.
...

SUPER65 · Post by **SUPER65** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:30 am

You have commited strategical and tactical errors. And both have to be solved.

-Strategy: the great advantage in this scenary is the surprise factor. You choose when attack so a well planned joint attack is the best option.
Now you have to value threats. In this occasion there are three principal threats: enemy air force, enemy artillery and enemy missile defenses.
Enemy air force is mostly obsolete, it is not a considerable threat to your surface groups but it can face your falcons
with floggers and fulcrums. So you have to set a combat air patrol in the area where your attack aircrafts will be
working.

Enemy artillery is the greatest threat to your garrisons in the islands. And defending them is one of your principal
objectives. Going one by one is worthless, you will have loses before you reach last enemy artillery unit. The solution is
destroying them at the same time.
Notice that if you make any attack against the enemy before finishing artillery threat, it is probably that they will
start firing. So this must be the first offensive you do.

There are two types of missile defenses, SAM and surface-surface missile batteries.
KN06 SAM is the biggest threat to your air operations and one SA-2 (SW of North Korea). You have enough TAURUS cruise
missiles to destroy them. Try to avoid that your cruise missiles overfly other SAM in order to do a succesfull attack.
Also HARM missiles are suitable against SAM (active emission required)

Fly low and fast when in range of enemy SAM.

-Tactical: know the capabilities of friendly and enemy units, weapons and sensors efectiveness. Ex: dont use Mavericks against hardened bunkers, dont face Falcons armed with WVR missiles against Mig-29...
Manage your units adequately, when you need or may need them, use them, when not, not.
Dont expose your most vulnerable units to enemy attacks...
You will lear this by trial and error.
You can make a txt file for each unit collecting its actions in combat, successes and fails. So in a future you will know if you are going to succes or not by consulting your history in previous scenarios. Or you can ask here, of course.

Sorry for english grammatical errors

ultradave · Post by **ultradave** » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:58 am

ORIGINAL: HalfLifeExpert

Yes this is true, but I also think it would be great to be able to assign escorts to a support mission. It makes logical sense that fighter pilots may receive orders to take off and protect this AEW aircraft.

Yes, that would be a nice addition. There are times when it would be very useful.

cmanouser1 · Post by **cmanouser1** » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:34 pm

The thread is a bit old but I played the scenario for the first time recently and despite its apparent complexity it's one of the easiest I've seen, I can be done in a couple minutes:

1) attack targets that are within range of the island ground units. This will take care of most targets
2) Shoot some Taurus at the target bunkers
3) finish the last 2 targets that are not in range of the islands, e.g. with the fleets or any other mean.

I've seen there are several events in the editor but it's so easy I'm not sure one would ever reach the point where they trigger [:D]

Blue Dawn, Where did I go wrong?

Blue Dawn, Where did I go wrong?

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