THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J)

[Rio Bravo]

[center]September 21, 1943[/center]


Highlights for Today


1.) Allied carrier fighters beat-off Japanese airstrike against the Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet.

2.) The Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet traveling at 5 knots is 1,320 miles northwest of Guam and 320 miles southeast of its destination one hex due east of Pescadores.


Synopsis of Combat Action for Today


1.) Near Hengchun (hex 85,68), Japanese submarines take a thrashing.

SS I-24; 10 hits.
SS I-159; 14 hits; heavy damage.
SS I-160; 7 hits; heavy damage.
SS I-173; 21 hits; sunk.

No Allied losses.

2.) Near Takao (hex 83,66), Allied carrier fighters hold their own against Japanese airstrike against the Invasion Fleet.

2 destroyed (Ki-45 Kai Nick).
1 destroyed (Ki-84a Frank).

1 destroyed (FM-1 Wildcat).
1 destroyed (F4F-3 Wildcat).
1 destroyed (F6F-3 Hellcat).

3.) Near Pagan (hex 109,89), Allied Dauntless Dive Bombers Sink Japanese Subchasers.

SC Cha-11; 1 bomb hit; sunk.
SC Cha-13; 1 bomb hit; sunk.

No Allied losses.

4.) Japanese bombed Chungking.

5.) Japanese bombarded Chungking.

No Japanese losses.

120 Chinese casualties.


Attached bellows as a link is the entire Combat Report for September 21, 1943.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[CaptHaggard]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Putting your CVEs in the same TF as your CVs hobbles them from high speed moves. Better to put your 30+ knot ships in one set of TFs and your slower ships in another set. They can still normally travel in the same hex. I would rather risk the CVEs falling behind and being hit by the enemy than slow down my CV TFs and have them caught by an enemy SCTF.

BB—

Here's the question I ponder re CV & CVEs in the same TF:

Does the speed/maneuverability differences between CVs & CVEs negatively affect the defensive capabilities of the CVs during the actual air assault? IOW, tactically, as well as operationally?

As always, thank you, BB!

Hag

[CaptHaggard]

[quote]ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

[center]September 21, 1943[/center]

2.) The Operations Bottle and Cork Invasion Fleet traveling at 5 knots is 1,320 miles northwest of Guam and 320 miles southeast of its destination one hex due east of Pescadores.


Ummm... sir? NOT 5 knots... otherwise we'd still be near the Bonins...

We're traveling 200-250 miles per day, so more like 10 knots... still slow, true.

Hag

[CaptHaggard]

Gentlemen,

Now we near the crucial moments: first step, sweeping mines.

The orders are to arrive at OWP (One West Pescadores) tomorrow.

During the approach, I will send the MS TFs ahead to targets. As BB reported, there exists a plethora of intrinsic mines (300-350) at both Takao & Pescadores. There are also intrinsic CD units at these places.

My first thoughts are to combine the MS TFs into one large TF for each target and send them on patrol: Station One the target, Station Two OWP.

That way, we should sweep at night and beat it back to safety during the day, away from the CDs (expecting no air support).

Pipe-dream or feasible?

Then we will go back in the next night with the Bombardment TFs and remain there.

Questions: Will enough mines be swept for the invasion TFs (entering target hexes right behind the Bombardment TFs)? Or should I simply send in the MS TFs and keep them there by themselves the entire first entry turn?

Thank you,

Hag

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: CaptHaggard

Gentlemen,

Now we near the crucial moments: first step, sweeping mines.

The orders are to arrive at OWP (One West Pescadores) tomorrow.

During the approach, I will send the MS TFs ahead to targets. As BB reported, there exists a plethora of intrinsic mines (300-350) at both Takao & Pescadores. There are also intrinsic CD units at these places.

My first thoughts are to combine the MS TFs into one large TF for each target and send them on patrol: Station One the target, Station Two OWP.

That way, we should sweep at night and beat it back to safety during the day, away from the CDs (expecting no air support).

Pipe-dream or feasible?

Then we will go back in the next night with the Bombardment TFs and remain there.

Questions: Will enough mines be swept for the invasion TFs (entering target hexes right behind the Bombardment TFs)? Or should I simply send in the MS TFs and keep them there by themselves the entire first entry turn?

Thank you,

Hag

It is not so much the number of mines as knowing where all the minefields are. Each time mines are laid at a given hex they are treated as a different minefield. Once you have detected all the minefields you ships will avoid them 99% of the time.

DMS are fast enough to be hard to hit early on but I am not sure if the Japanese CD units can hit them once they have radar at the base. AMs are almost certain to be hit hard, but if you deem them expendable in exchange for detecting the fields and sweeping some of them, that is not bad strategy.

Another possibility is just to send in a couple of BBs escorted by DDs (for ASW against mini-subs) and DMS for minesweeping. The BBs will suppress the CD units firing at the DMS. The DMS should sweep a path to keep the BBs safe from mines. I always use at least one more DMS than BBs.

[CaptHaggard]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: CaptHaggard

Gentlemen,

Now we near the crucial moments: first step, sweeping mines.

The orders are to arrive at OWP (One West Pescadores) tomorrow.

During the approach, I will send the MS TFs ahead to targets. As BB reported, there exists a plethora of intrinsic mines (300-350) at both Takao & Pescadores. There are also intrinsic CD units at these places.

My first thoughts are to combine the MS TFs into one large TF for each target and send them on patrol: Station One the target, Station Two OWP.

That way, we should sweep at night and beat it back to safety during the day, away from the CDs (expecting no air support).

Pipe-dream or feasible?

Then we will go back in the next night with the Bombardment TFs and remain there.

Questions: Will enough mines be swept for the invasion TFs (entering target hexes right behind the Bombardment TFs)? Or should I simply send in the MS TFs and keep them there by themselves the entire first entry turn?

Thank you,

Hag

It is not so much the number of mines as knowing where all the minefields are. Each time mines are laid at a given hex they are treated as a different minefield. Once you have detected all the minefields you ships will avoid them 99% of the time.

DMS are fast enough to be hard to hit early on but I am not sure if the Japanese CD units can hit them once they have radar at the base. AMs are almost certain to be hit hard, but if you deem them expendable in exchange for detecting the fields and sweeping some of them, that is not bad strategy.

Another possibility is just to send in a couple of BBs escorted by DDs (for ASW against mini-subs) and DMS for minesweeping. The BBs will suppress the CD units firing at the DMS. The DMS should sweep a path to keep the BBs safe from mines. I always use at least one more DMS than BBs.

BB—

Once again you clarify my errant thoughts: We can clean 'em up after we have the place. Now we just need a path or two.

So if an initial D/L level is established that first night—by placing the MS TF on "Patrol" and hopefully retreating back to the TFG sanctuary OWP for the day phase—it should be close to that initialD/L level for the second MS TF foray the next night, no? And thereafter increase?

D/L - M/L rules in the manual seems easier to grok in terms of ships and aircraft than minefields for some reason... I should wrap my noggin around more WITPAE rules than Pinots, I guess.

Thank you, my friend!

*Salute*

Hag

[BBfanboy]

As with so many things, detecting the minefields is a die-roll thing. The number and experience of your MS's probably plays a part in finding the fields. There are no guarantees.
In addition to sending in BBs with DMS embedded, I also embed AMs in the amphib TFs on their way in. The game seems to model the first mines laid being closer to shore and as more fields are laid they move out further. Your MSs will initially encounter the fields furthest out from shore and CD guns may prevent them from going in close to clear those mines. Amphib ships have to go in close so they need MSs with them to ensure a path is cleared.

Do NOT let your AOs go into a mined hex until it is cleared. This seems obvious but if you embedded your AOs in the amphib TF when it set out you may have forgotten about them ...

[pontiouspilot]

Whether by design or your bad luck your opponent has held off on anything but "tickler" raids....my hunch is that you are in for "fire and fury", or whatever the leader of free world calls it. This could mean hundreds of planes in single strikes. I wonder whether kamikaze triggers now or after feet hit the ground?? Likely the latter. Make sure your CAP is as ready as it can be. There are better advisors than me on this...make sure your higher altitude performers are used accordingly, with lower set lower. Stagger your patrol levels regardless. Set your range to short, at least over CVs. Designate LRCAP over any transport TFs. Hopefully the fatigue is not already high...bad time for me to tell you to rest them.

[BBfanboy]

Pretty sure Kamikazes do not trigger before Jan. 1, 1944.

[CaptHaggard]

BB & PP,

I think I too recently read kamikazes can appear at the earliest 1/1/44, but it is true these imminent invasions will trigger that early date.

I just had a typical phone conversation with Admiral Bravo: talking over each other, interrupting, pleading for the floor, casting a few broad swipes at each other's perceived flaws, and then of course many hearty laughs. This is our typical M.O.—we were school chums, drinking buddies, we've been in business together, we've jointly written a novel—generally, we come to blows over everything and anything.

Today's subjects of which we did not dispute, argue or even parse details:

A. El Lobo is coming with everything;

B. "Everything" is a whole lot of nasty stuff.

El is back in the USA and probably jet-lagged to beat the band and so the onslaught pauses in dreamlike fashion, akin to a Hitchcockian pistol slowly aimed from between the crack of curtains...

By the CR of the very next turn, we will be in Strike Hex OWP; we will know a lot more about what awaits us in Takao, Pescadores and Amoy. But strategically and operationally, it's not going to make any difference:

The next day we go in.

*Hearing 'Anchors Aweigh' and mind-painting recruiting posters... before I puke the nerves out*

Carry on, Gentlemen—as always you are peerless advisors—

Hag

[Rio Bravo]

Captain Haggard-

That makes sense.

I must have translated 5 hexes a turn to 5 knots.

In the future I will try to set forth the right knot speed.

Your pal,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Whether by design or your bad luck your opponent has held off on anything but "tickler" raids....my hunch is that you are in for "fire and fury", or whatever the leader of free world calls it. This could mean hundreds of planes in single strikes. I wonder whether kamikaze triggers now or after feet hit the ground?? Likely the latter. Make sure your CAP is as ready as it can be. There are better advisors than me on this...make sure your higher altitude performers are used accordingly, with lower set lower. Stagger your patrol levels regardless. Set your range to short, at least over CVs. Designate LRCAP over any transport TFs. Hopefully the fatigue is not already high...bad time for me to tell you to rest them.

pontiouspilot-

I agree.

El Lobo is not going to tolerate the Allies landing at Takao, Formosa, Pescadores, and possibly Amoy, China unopposed.

El Lobo is going to come at the Allies with everything he has and he has LBA Georges and Franks, LBA bombers, his carriers and the bulk of his Surface Combat ships.

I think the landings will prevail.

I think the Allies will pay a heavy toll for the landings.

My best hope is that the Allies can inflict some damage to El Lobo's war mongers.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Pretty sure Kamikazes do not trigger before Jan. 1, 1944.

BBfanboy-

I agree.

Allied boots hitting the turf at Takao, Pescadores, and possibly Amoy will trigger the early release of Kamikazes.

But, like you, I think the earliest the Kamikazes can fly will be January 1, 1944.

I know El Lobo. As soon as he has an opportunity to hit the Allies with Kamikazes, he will.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]The Emperor Has Landed[/center]


El Lobo phoned me last night.

He had a safe flight from Thailand and landed in San Francisco yesterday.

He will be busy during the next couple of weeks as he has some stateside matters to check off his "To Do List," and he has friends that he wants to spend time with in the Bay Area.

El Lobo plans to visit Captain Haggard and the Adjutant (Hag's wife) in Sanoma on the 20th and 21st of September.

Captain Haggard will ride with El Lobo to Grass Valley on the 22nd of September. The three of us will spend some quality time together on the back deck to consume some spirits, address and resolve current world problems, laugh too much, and try hard not to divulge too many War in the Pacific secrets. Hag will probably stay at my home for the 22nd and 23rd of September. El Lobo plans to stay at my home for two weeks or longer.

Accordingly, for a brief period of time, we won't be doing a turn a day. El Lobo said it would be a couple days before he can get the turn to me. After that, turns on a daily basis will be hit and miss depending on El Lobo's schedule and our consumption of alcohol.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[pontiouspilot]

Enjoy a nice California pinot with your opponent for us spectators!

[CaptHaggard]

ORIGINAL: Rio Bravo

Captain Haggard-

That makes sense.

I must have translated 5 hexes a turn to 5 knots.

In the future I will try to set forth the right knot speed.

Your pal,

-Terry

No big deal, Admiral. Just thought I'd point it out.

The real point is, we're almost there, mate!

Hag

[CaptHaggard]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Enjoy a nice California pinot with your opponent for us spectators!

PP—

If the empties on Rio's kitchen countertop number less than a dozen by the time I leave, I will feel I failed...

[Rio Bravo]

I spoke with El Lobo on the phone yesterday and learned why El Lobo hasn't sent a turn for the past couple weeks.

He said he has analysis paralysis.

He isn't sure exactly where the Allies intend to land so he can't make up his mind where to fly his LBA.

*chuckling*

El Lobo and Captain Haggard are scheduled to arrive at my home on Wednesday, the 20th of September, 2017.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

El Lobo and Captain Haggard's visit to Grass Valley has been revised.

El Lobo is presently visiting Captain Haggard and the Adjutant (Hag's wife) in Sanoma.

El Lobo plans to arrive in Grass Valley on September 23rd and plans to stay at my home for two weeks or longer.

Captain Haggard plans to arrive in Grass Valley on September 29th and will probably stay a couple days.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Bif1961]

I started the wild fires in CA to make him move faster and send you a turn tell me if it works.