Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Would you like me to post my moves for turn 7 here Dinglir?

As a spectator an AAR alternating from each side would be fun!

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Would you like me to post my moves for turn 7 here Dinglir?

As a spectator an AAR alternating from each side would be fun!

I concur, just want to make sure it is fine with Dinglir first

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Turn 7 Dinglir devastated my Airforce this turn. By the end of the turn I had lost 975 aircraft and over 30 Recon which Dinglir did some very nice raids on on my Recon bases I have since corrected that oversight on my part.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Since I don't do snapshots at the beginning of a turn I will use Dinglir's photo of his ending turn to show my intentions for 7. My whole strat for Leningrad is to delay as much as possible to hold onto Leningrad (Leningrad >>> Moscow). I always leave my right flank at Pskov weaker than the rest of my lines(Germans Left flank). The reason being I rather the Germans go to the German left than my middle or my left flank towards lake Ilmen. I rarely withdraw or retreat when I'm defending Leningrad. Only doing so to strengthen my lines. To be honest withdrawing/retreating helps the Germans. As such I go on the attack with Zhukov.

1. I want to bunch the Germans up into a pile and restrict their movement, not so much for supply but for attack purposes on their next turn.
2. I want to occupy the Plyussa River line if at all possible or make the Germans cross it.
3. I want to occupy the Heavy Forest areas which are excellent defensive spots.
4. Will try and use as few troops as possible to have units in Reserve for the coming attacks by the Germans. This is key since the Soviets sux monkey ballz at digging in.
5. Will need to force a retreat (at a minimum) one armor Division (marked A) and one Moto (marked B) for defense next turn. If I have a unit to get into the hex to the west of the Panzer (marked A) (The town of Lyady) then I will try and route the Panzer but to do that I need to retreat another Moto unit to the SW of the Panzer. I have a Calvary unit with plenty of movement so I place him in Lyady to the West of the Panzer. So I'm going to go for "broke". I will need to attack the Moto unit SW of the Panzer (marked C) before attacking the Panzer to route the Panzer.
6. Attack hexes marked "D" first before anything else & "E" last if I have the Units.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

The first attack on hex D barely succeeds Yes I have the +1 Soviet Attack bonus otherwise I probably wouldn't have been so ballsy.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

The 2nd attack on hex C. Again barely made it because of the Soviet +1.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Surround and attack hex A. It routed to hex 68 23. I bomb it and move a soviet unit next to it so it routes again and I bomb it again.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Then attack hex B & force a retreat.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Last attack in the North is hex E which I get a retreat, barely. Without the +1 Soviet attack three of these attacks would have failed. Plus the Germans had used all of their MP's making it easier to make the hex retreat from the fatigue.

So now all of the PZ/Moto units are all nice and bunched up and another is on holiday way out west.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Here is the ending picture of my turn for the North as I gave it back to Dinglir. You will notice the routed PZ on holiday to the west, all the PZ/Moto bunched up, the pocket opened up, a layered defense and still have units that didn't move for reserves. Yes I will have some high casualties on routed units but I'm trading that for time. (Please note units with RED center are units with morale over 45 and squad experience over 45, Lime center are units with over 5 battle wins)

[HardLuckYetAgain]

I saw no Panzers or Moto in front of Moscow area so I decide to attack. I had some good attacks, and "NOT" so good outcomes on some attacks (I rather not discuss how many men I lost on some of those failed attacks) But I need to draw pressure away from the Leningrad area but unlikely

[HardLuckYetAgain]

Calvary charge! (plus infantry)

[Crackaces]

I'm thinking this story has more regarding the road to moscow ..

[galex]

Sov+1 is FAR TOO STRONG especially in an experinced player's hand.
Could not believe 6 Sov Divison can force 3 German infantry Divison to lose ground in 1941,not even in 1942 or later in the real history.
I don't think +1 make any historical results. [:-]

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: galex

Sov+1 is FAR TOO STRONG especially in an experinced player's hand.
Could not believe 6 Sov Divison can force 3 German infantry Divison to lose ground in 1941,not even in 1942 or later in the real history.
I don't think +1 make any historical results. [:-]

There is always two conceptions .. historical and playability... in fact it is important and I'm of the opinion it is important to select like opponents.in this case these 2 very good opponents like good games exclusive of historical context. Others might want a more historical game and that's a okay.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: galex

Sov+1 is FAR TOO STRONG especially in an experinced player's hand.
Could not believe 6 Sov Divison can force 3 German infantry Divison to lose ground in 1941,not even in 1942 or later in the real history.
I don't think +1 make any historical results. [:-]

Remember, I have the best Soviet Inf Divisions here, I have the best leaders here, I have 90% of my Air Power here. The real reason the motorised and panzer division retreated is because they were fatigued to high heaven. I bet the infantry divisions moved a great deal too. Thus, I don't agree that the +1 is OP during the summer months. I never have on that point. What I have had an issue with is the +1 Soviet attack is in the Winter (even with Mild blizzard). Then the +1 Soviet attack is WAY OP in experienced players hand. I actually don't like playing the Soviet side, I really do sux playing this side. I just picked it up because someone mentioned they would like to see the ridiculousness of the Soviet +1 attack in the winter. Silly me I jumped in head first on this

BTW, even without the +1 I can get Germans to retreat. You just do things different.

[M60A3TTS]

I'd like to see a screenshot of Soviet air losses by airframe if someone can manage that.

[Dinglir]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I'd like to see a screenshot of Soviet air losses by airframe if someone can manage that.

You can check the Excel spreadsheet I distribute with the AAR.

It shows the estimated number of Soviets airframes still active (at least for some of the airframes).

By my calculations, the Soviets should be at 819 MiG-3's, 335 Yak-1's and 641 LaGG-3's at this point in time. On top of this comes several thousands of I-Type fighters.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I'd like to see a screenshot of Soviet air losses by airframe if someone can manage that.

You can check the Excel spreadsheet I distribute with the AAR.

It shows the estimated number of Soviets airframes still active (at least for some of the airframes).

By my calculations, the Soviets should be at 819 MiG-3's, 335 Yak-1's and 641 LaGG-3's at this point in time. On top of this comes several thousands of I-Type fighters.

The calculations are pretty close

[Dinglir]

Losses over the previous (for Germans) turn would have been

I-153BS: 32
Su-2: 15
IL-2: 42
R-5: 8
SB-2Rcn: 18
MiG-3: 84
Yak-1: 54
LaGG-3: 37