OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

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crsutton
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

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Damn, that is a brilliant bit of work!
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by geofflambert »

Yes, I don't know who that Christopher R. Sutton is but he certainly does have a good noggin' rockin' on his shoulders.

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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by cwemyss »

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I feel your pain, Ross.

I just finished reading Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six, in which he has it summertime in Australia and Kansas simultaneously!

I found the book at my mom's, while helping her move. Reading those 890 pages was a huge, huge, huge time suck for no benefit whatsoever. Poor Clancy - superb writer in the '80s who fell off to woeful by the mid and late '90s, with one or two exceptions on both ends.

Clancy had an editor for Red October, Red Storm Rising (with Larry Bond), and a few more early ones. At some point he decided he was the greatest writer in history, and no longer required such insulting amateur support as an editor... After all, what other mortal could improve on his work.

It showed. Books went up by 300 non-value added pages, Jack Ryan's dialogue started sounding more and more like Clancy's own political screeds, and in Debt of Honor (after which I bailed) there's a couple whole multi-page sections that appear verbatim more than once.

Sad, like you said. I really enjoyed the early stuff.
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by MakeeLearn »


Mostly aerial, a little of the naval...

First Air War Over Africa by Jon Guttman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ta0guj-Tms






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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by US87891 »

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Thanks! But which of the above is a great book and shines above the rest.....[;)]
If you are interested in this, and it is a wonderful study, there are three main aspects to the War I campaigns in Africa that you may wish to consider .

The first is Paul Emil von Lettau-Vorbeck himself. Everything that happened, everything Germany did, the very existence of the campaign, was due to this one man. His strategy was simplicity itself; to survive and tie up as many Entente troops as possible for as long as possible. His thought processes came up with the tactics and operations to make this possible. He was an ardent student of LaSalle and the various Frei Korps of the Napoleonic wars, JEB Stuart, Nathan Forrest, and the recent operations of the Boer commandos. These informed his tactics. An excellent book is his own. It counts as one of the first primers on asymmetrical warfare. Available in British and US versions and is surely in reprint somewhere.
Paul Emil von Lettau-Vorbeck, My Reminiscences of East Africa, Hurst Blackett, London, 1920

The second aspect is the campaign itself. This part is fairly dry, mostly they went here and did that, then went over there and did something else. The interesting part is the reaction the various moves caused in places far, far away from Africa itself. Applying the psychology of asymmetry to the action-reaction cycle is done very well in:
Byron Farwell, The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918, Norton, London, 1986

The third aspect is the dynamic of southern Africa. The campaign involved British, German, and Portuguese East Africa, as well as portions of Rhodesia and the Belgian Congo. A lesser known codicil to the East African campaign is the campaign against German South West Africa. It involved former Boer commando leaders, like Jan Smuts and Louis Botha, firmly on the side of the British, while others, like Christiaan de Wet and Koos de la Rey, saw War I as an opportunity to take advantage of Britain’s misfortune. Germany, after all, had been the Boer’s supporter twelve years earlier. This is particularly fascinating given the number of troops that were occupied in garrison and security duties as compared to those eventually available for operations against West Africa and subsequently Vorbeck. I don’t have a book reference for this, just some War College White Papers, but I am sure there are at least a couple. Finding one should certainly prove rewarding. Another study of asymmetry in action conveniently right next door to Vorbeck.

That’s all. Matt
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by stuman »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Oh, I have got to buy that book, it's got a zeppelin on the cover! [X(] Led Zeppelin was one of my favorites. Now I'm going to have Kashmir in my head all day!

Now I will also have that song running through my head all day.

And interesting thread !
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by CaptBeefheart »

My college buddy once lent me "Utmost Fish" by his dad, which is a great book.

It's a novel done in an Alistair Maclean-like manner about an RN expedition to bring a torpedo boat overland to challenge the Germans on Lake Tanganyika. It'll give you some of the flavor of that theater for those interested.

That book led me to buy Byron Farwell, The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918, Norton, London, 1986, which I recall as being quite good, and as US87891 said, a lesson in asymmetrical warfare.

Cheers,
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

This is the only other critical review on Amazon (aside from mine) but I think this readers review was spot on.

The author is sloppy with some of his facts. In describing the diseases the combatants were subject to he makes many sloppy, and to me unforgivable, mistakes. Trypanosoma is called the "trypanosoma bacteria".. but the parasite in question is not a bacterium but in fact is a member of the Eukaryota - the same group of cells our bodies are made of. While discussing the Guinea worm he talks about fleas and then discusses water fleasa dn calls them simply "fleas. Really dumb. Fleas are insects. Water Fleas are crustaceans.
The there are problems with his naval nomenclature.While covering the SMS Konigsberg and the naval engagement off the coast of East Africa, the author became a bit sloppy with his research or with his presentation. The SMS Konigsberg was not a battle cruiser nor a battleship ( both terms are used in different section to describe the Konigsberg) , but rather a light cruiser. She is described as "massive" and " powerful" , but really she was not, and was not intended to be. She displaced about 4,000 tons and had 10 4.1" guns- no match for a real battle cruiser or battleship. The SMS Emden, another light cruiser, is identified as a sister ship but she was not and in fact the Emden was Dresden class light cruiser which succeeded the Konigsberg class. The British heavy and light cruisers sent to hunt and destroy the Konigsberg are also described as battleships at times. The HMS Chatham , the flagship of the force sent to destroy the SMS Konigsberg was also a light cruiser, and certainly could not be described as "massive". She is described as "too massive" to sail up the Rifuji. The Konigsberg displaced just under 4,000 tons and the Chatham about 5,400 ( both according to Wikipedia). It is indeed very possible that that the Rifuji was too shallow for the Chatham and not the Konigsberg, but to call the former "massive" is really not even remotely accurate; battleships and battlecruisers of this era displaced roughly 18,000 to over 30,000 tons ( battleships obviously being heavier than battlecruisers). One might think these are small points but mistakes like this, so easy avoid with basic research and fact checking naturally lead me to wonder what mistakes by the author have I missed?
warspite1

Yes, always best to check one's facts [;)]. Criticising an author for not checking his facts and then writing a piece showing the critic has not checked his facts, isn't great.....[:(]

But the second point in bold is so true.
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by LargeSlowTarget »

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The Germans dispatched a Zeppelin to bring badly needed supplies to von Lettow-Vorbeck. That's right, from Germany to East Africa. It was recalled midway when von Lettow-Vorbeck captured some.
Yes, this is true.

Not quite. LZ 104 / L59 was recalled when Lettow-Vorbeck reported by radio that he had lost control of the intended destination - the plateau of Mahenge - and had to retreat into rugged mountainous terrain, where the zeppelin could not land safely.

Edit: And the voyage started and ended in Bulgaria (member of the "Central Powers"), not Germany.
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,
ORIGINAL: geofflambert

.

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Nice one! [:)]


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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Damn, that is a brilliant bit of work!

Dunno. Sounds like the incoherent screed of some self-aggrandizing Birkenstock-wearing hippie to me. [:'(]
[;)]

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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: US87891
ORIGINAL: crsutton
Thanks! But which of the above is a great book and shines above the rest.....[;)]
If you are interested in this, and it is a wonderful study, there are three main aspects to the War I campaigns in Africa that you may wish to consider .

The first is Paul Emil von Lettau-Vorbeck himself. Everything that happened, everything Germany did, the very existence of the campaign, was due to this one man. His strategy was simplicity itself; to survive and tie up as many Entente troops as possible for as long as possible. His thought processes came up with the tactics and operations to make this possible. He was an ardent student of LaSalle and the various Frei Korps of the Napoleonic wars, JEB Stuart, Nathan Forrest, and the recent operations of the Boer commandos. These informed his tactics. An excellent book is his own. It counts as one of the first primers on asymmetrical warfare. Available in British and US versions and is surely in reprint somewhere.
Paul Emil von Lettau-Vorbeck, My Reminiscences of East Africa, Hurst Blackett, London, 1920

The second aspect is the campaign itself. This part is fairly dry, mostly they went here and did that, then went over there and did something else. The interesting part is the reaction the various moves caused in places far, far away from Africa itself. Applying the psychology of asymmetry to the action-reaction cycle is done very well in:
Byron Farwell, The Great War in Africa: 1914-1918, Norton, London, 1986

The third aspect is the dynamic of southern Africa. The campaign involved British, German, and Portuguese East Africa, as well as portions of Rhodesia and the Belgian Congo. A lesser known codicil to the East African campaign is the campaign against German South West Africa. It involved former Boer commando leaders, like Jan Smuts and Louis Botha, firmly on the side of the British, while others, like Christiaan de Wet and Koos de la Rey, saw War I as an opportunity to take advantage of Britain’s misfortune. Germany, after all, had been the Boer’s supporter twelve years earlier. This is particularly fascinating given the number of troops that were occupied in garrison and security duties as compared to those eventually available for operations against West Africa and subsequently Vorbeck. I don’t have a book reference for this, just some War College White Papers, but I am sure there are at least a couple. Finding one should certainly prove rewarding. Another study of asymmetry in action conveniently right next door to Vorbeck.

That’s all. Matt

Thanks Matt, I am looking for a copy of the Great War in Africa in our library system today.
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by Zorch »

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
ORIGINAL: Zorch

The Germans dispatched a Zeppelin to bring badly needed supplies to von Lettow-Vorbeck. That's right, from Germany to East Africa. It was recalled midway when von Lettow-Vorbeck captured some.
Yes, this is true.

Not quite. LZ 104 / L59 was recalled when Lettow-Vorbeck reported by radio that he had lost control of the intended destination - the plateau of Mahenge - and had to retreat into rugged mountainous terrain, where the zeppelin could not land safely.

Edit: And the voyage started and ended in Bulgaria (member of the "Central Powers"), not Germany.
I would refer to my sources, but they're no longer extant. [;)]
Thanks.
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by Skyros »

Chris why read when you can play the campaign.



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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by pontiouspilot »

Wow...you must be related to my Aussie opponent from Adelaide who is a professional librarian!!
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by Canoerebel »

You can also read C.S. Forester's entertaining novel set in WWI Africa, The African Queen, and then watch the great movie starring Bogart and Hepburn!
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by pontiouspilot »

Does that ever bring back memories! Do you have quite a collection of their old games?
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RE: OT-For god's sake, don't read this book!

Post by Skyros »

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Does that ever bring back memories! Do you have quite a collection of their old games?
I must have over 60 games in boxes, folio and magazines. Still love to pull the maps out when Im reading a book about a campaign. They are usually better then the maps in the book. My daughter went to Chang Mai in Thailand and I was able to show my wife and kids where it is in WITPAE, see dear my games come in handy[8|]
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