Upcoming CV battle...Japanese trick?

[Rusty1961]

In my current game, almost June of 43, I have all my carries intact and undamaged. My Japanese opponent has lost the Shokaku, a CVE (Tahio or Tayo?) and the Hosho. Since before the loss of the Shokaku all his strikes came in with 99 Zero escort and I can probably put up 200 Hellcats and Wildcats, what is to prevent the Japanese player from sending his Alpha strike at 100 feet in hopes of evading my CAP given he would lose most of his torpedo planes and dive bombers? Has anyone ever seen that?

What is the US recomended CAP alt distribution?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

In my current game, almost June of 43, I have all my carries intact and undamaged. My Japanese opponent has lost the Shokaku, a CVE (Tahio or Tayo?) and the Hosho. Since before the loss of the Shokaku all his strikes came in with 99 Zero escort and I can probably put up 200 Hellcats and Wildcats, what is to prevent the Japanese player from sending his Alpha strike at 100 feet in hopes of evading my CAP given he would lose most of his torpedo planes and dive bombers? Has anyone ever seen that?

What is the US recomended CAP alt distribution?

There is no 'set' recommendation for Allied CAP. Some players 'stack' CAP (one unit at 15,000 feet, another at 10,000 feet another at 5,000 feet, etc.) to intercept high fighters, medium altitude DBs and low incoming TBs. Some just set all CAP at one altitude (e.g., 10,000 feet) and let it ferret out the enemy incoming strike piecemeal.

Nothing dive bombs from 100 feet. Just can't do it. You can set your altitude of your strike aircraft to whatever you want for the inbound trip, but they will assume an appropriate altitude for attack position. Dive bombers dive from 10,000 feet. TBs attack from 200 feet, regardless if they fly in at 15,000 feet or skim the water.

Fighters will provide escort as best able, but you increase the likelihood that the strike will fragment and the fighters lose contact with the strike DBs/TBs by flying them at vastly different altitudes. Then your bombers end up over the target, savaged by enemy air with no support.

[dr.hal]

Well obviously you're in a good position so a bit of a risk is certainly understandable. Of course your opponent can do anything, but remember that dive bombers to be effective had to fly at 10-15K ft and to attack outside that block greatly reduces their effectiveness. I would not waste my Vals in an attempt to "sneak" inside your defenses. A few other considerations. If his/her attack starts off so low, it will have trouble finding you, and if not fully coordinated, then he/she risks having fragments attacking piecemeal for those a/c that DO find you. Not a good idea against so many defending fighters. Also there is nothing to dissuade you from putting some of your CAP at 5K to guard against this sort of thing. As for the remaining cap, I would keep them at at least 15-17K (maybe with some at 10-2K) as you want to get an altitude advantage to the incoming strike force. Hal

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

In my current game, almost June of 43, I have all my carries intact and undamaged. My Japanese opponent has lost the Shokaku, a CVE (Tahio or Tayo?) and the Hosho. Since before the loss of the Shokaku all his strikes came in with 99 Zero escort and I can probably put up 200 Hellcats and Wildcats, what is to prevent the Japanese player from sending his Alpha strike at 100 feet in hopes of evading my CAP given he would lose most of his torpedo planes and dive bombers? Has anyone ever seen that?

What is the US recomended CAP alt distribution?

Nothing dive bombs from 100 feet. Just can't do it. You can set your altitude of your strike aircraft to whatever you want for the inbound trip, but they will assume an appropriate altitude for attack position. Dive bombers dive from 10,000 feet. TBs attack from 200 feet, regardless if they fly in at 15,000 feet or skim the water.

This is not true, or at least you skipped a part:

You can set the altitudes to whatever you want, but if you don't set dive bombers to between 10K-15K feet, they won't dive bomb. If you have them at 100 feet, they'll still attempt that strafing attack...

The torpedo planes will still launch torpedoes from 200 feet, but I haven't tested whether they'll actually carry torpedoes if set to 100 feet altitude: that setting typically results in reduced bomb load unless you're an attack bomber or fighter bomber. Stratoteleport torpedoes are definitely a thing, however.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

In my current game, almost June of 43, I have all my carries intact and undamaged. My Japanese opponent has lost the Shokaku, a CVE (Tahio or Tayo?) and the Hosho. Since before the loss of the Shokaku all his strikes came in with 99 Zero escort and I can probably put up 200 Hellcats and Wildcats, what is to prevent the Japanese player from sending his Alpha strike at 100 feet in hopes of evading my CAP given he would lose most of his torpedo planes and dive bombers? Has anyone ever seen that?

What is the US recomended CAP alt distribution?

Nothing dive bombs from 100 feet. Just can't do it. You can set your altitude of your strike aircraft to whatever you want for the inbound trip, but they will assume an appropriate altitude for attack position. Dive bombers dive from 10,000 feet. TBs attack from 200 feet, regardless if they fly in at 15,000 feet or skim the water.

This is not true, or at least you skipped a part:

You can set the altitudes to whatever you want, but if you don't set dive bombers to between 10K-15K feet, they won't dive bomb. If you have them at 100 feet, they'll still attempt that strafing attack...

I appreciate the thought, Lokasenna, but I've said noting untrue nor skipped anything germane to the question. "Will DBs set to 200 feet carry out a dive bombing?" The answer, without being overly picayune, is 'No. Nothing dive bombs from 100'.

[AW1Steve]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy





Nothing dive bombs from 100 feet. Just can't do it. You can set your altitude of your strike aircraft to whatever you want for the inbound trip, but they will assume an appropriate altitude for attack position. Dive bombers dive from 10,000 feet. TBs attack from 200 feet, regardless if they fly in at 15,000 feet or skim the water.

This is not true, or at least you skipped a part:

You can set the altitudes to whatever you want, but if you don't set dive bombers to between 10K-15K feet, they won't dive bomb. If you have them at 100 feet, they'll still attempt that strafing attack...

I appreciate the thought, Lokasenna, but I've said noting untrue nor skipped anything germane to the question. "Will DBs set to 200 feet carry out a dive bombing?" The answer, without being overly picayune, is 'No. Nothing dive bombs from 100'.

At least not twice. [:D]

[Lowpe]

If you are still flying a large number of wildcats, I would urge caution.

[Rusty1961]

Thank you.

But, I realize DBs can't DB from that low-altitude, can't they then glide-bomb from say 200 feet along with the TBs at 200 feet?

[PaxMondo]

I've never seen 200 ft option ... 100, 1000, 2000 ... but not 100 ... guess my game is not working.

at alt's under 10000, DB level bomb. over 15000 they glide bomb.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

I've never seen 200 ft option ... 100, 1000, 2000 ... but not 100 ... guess my game is not working.

at alt's under 10000, DB level bomb. over 15000 they glide bomb.

Glide bombing was removed from the bomber attack profiles about two years ago when they simplified the bombing model in one of the official updates. At the same time, the threshold for low level bombing changed from <6000 feet to <2000 feet.

The 200 feet mentioned for TBs is not a setting you can make - it is in the attack profile for the bomber doing a torpedo attack. Similarly, a dive bombing attack includes a starting altitude set by the player (within the 10-15K feet bracket) and a dive to somewhere between 3000 and 1000 feet (variable). I lose a lot of DBs to flak when I use the DB method, so unless the target is extremely valuable I use DBs at 9000 feet to level bomb and avoid most of the flak.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I lose a lot of DBs to flak when I use the DB method, so unless the target is extremely valuable I use DBs at 9000 feet to level bomb and avoid most of the flak.

Seriously...I want to play you! My goodness, you get tens of thousands of those beasts. Live a little and let them come screaming down! Plus they eat up lots of ammo making life a little bit easier for the torpedo bombers coming in low and slow.

[scondon87]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
The 200 feet mentioned for TBs is not a setting you can make - it is in the attack profile for the bomber doing a torpedo attack. Similarly, a dive bombing attack includes a starting altitude set by the player (within the 10-15K feet bracket) and a dive to somewhere between 3000 and 1000 feet (variable). I lose a lot of DBs to flak when I use the DB method, so unless the target is extremely valuable I use DBs at 9000 feet to level bomb and avoid most of the flak.

When it comes to carrier battles (valuable targets!), DBs need to be diving. However, I will use 9k and 16k when bombing ground targets, depending on flak.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I lose a lot of DBs to flak when I use the DB method, so unless the target is extremely valuable I use DBs at 9000 feet to level bomb and avoid most of the flak.

Seriously...I want to play you! My goodness, you get tens of thousands of those beasts. Live a little and let them come screaming down! Plus they eat up lots of ammo making life a little bit easier for the torpedo bombers coming in low and slow.

I am in 1942 and do not have thousands of DBs. And it is not the planes I seek to preserve, it is the experienced pilots. I can replace the planes every month but the pilots take nearly a year to get to the same kind of quality. I will risk them for attacks on CVs, major warships, Troop transports still laden with troops, subs in port, and maybe support ships. Land targets and AKs aren't worth the sacrifices.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
I lose a lot of DBs to flak when I use the DB method, so unless the target is extremely valuable I use DBs at 9000 feet to level bomb and avoid most of the flak.

Seriously...I want to play you! My goodness, you get tens of thousands of those beasts. Live a little and let them come screaming down! Plus they eat up lots of ammo making life a little bit easier for the torpedo bombers coming in low and slow.

No you don't, at least not of some of the models. Particular early/mid war.

I use DBs at 9K feet when bombing bases. There's little point in diving down into flak against stationary targets.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy





Nothing dive bombs from 100 feet. Just can't do it. You can set your altitude of your strike aircraft to whatever you want for the inbound trip, but they will assume an appropriate altitude for attack position. Dive bombers dive from 10,000 feet. TBs attack from 200 feet, regardless if they fly in at 15,000 feet or skim the water.

This is not true, or at least you skipped a part:

You can set the altitudes to whatever you want, but if you don't set dive bombers to between 10K-15K feet, they won't dive bomb. If you have them at 100 feet, they'll still attempt that strafing attack...

I appreciate the thought, Lokasenna, but I've said noting untrue nor skipped anything germane to the question. "Will DBs set to 200 feet carry out a dive bombing?" The answer, without being overly picayune, is 'No. Nothing dive bombs from 100'.

I didn't want anyone to be misled by your lack of clarity [;)].

[Chickenboy]

Like I said. Without being overly picayune. [:'(]
[;)]