Prep Points

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Prep Points

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

That's stuff for staff members and from rank of colonel up only. Troop training is not dedicated to one specific location only of course. And it must not be.

No one under Colonel (full) rank is given any information about the final objective not in the slightest. Day before action officers are briefed. and then the troops.

Except you'd be completely wrong here. There are myriad films of the era showing troops, down to privates, being briefed with aerial photos, sand tables, and 3-D models of actual defensive emplacements before landings.

My issue with the prep system is not its existence; that's history. It's how long it takes to prep a landing. Three months is excessive. That was a game design decision.
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Lokasenna
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RE: Prep Points

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Pentakomo

A few days before full prepare of command HQ
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 99596 troops, 1173 guns, 1430 vehicles, Assault Value = 3738
Defending force 41860 troops, 981 guns, 1047 vehicles, Assault Value = 682
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3
Japanese adjusted assault: 4008
Allied adjusted defense: 2725

And when command HQ reach 100% preparation
Japanese Deliberate attack
Attacking force 99851 troops, 1171 guns, 1439 vehicles, Assault Value = 3717
Defending force 38447 troops, 942 guns, 1011 vehicles, Assault Value = 473
Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2
Japanese adjusted assault: 7447
Allied adjusted defense: 763

The Command HQ is not necessarily the difference here. If you did 2 tests of the first attack, one of them with the Command HQ prepped and in range while the other without it prepped, you could compare them.

But the second attack here is against lower forts and Japanese units that have clearly degraded since the first attack. You can't really compare them.
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Barb
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RE: Prep Points

Post by Barb »

100 days (or so it takes to fully prepare a unit from 0 prep) or 75 days (switching target from 100 prep to another) is a bit excessive when compared to real experiences.
E.G. Battle of Saipan officially ended on 19th July - 2nd and 4th Marine Divisions were in the thick of it.
Battle of Tinian started on 24th July - by landing 4th Marine Division, 2nd Marine Division followed a day later

Sometimes the reserve troops were directed to another landing sites once the main landing was going succesfully. Having a regiment fully prepped for say Roi-Namur as reserve diverted to land at Eniwetok a day or two after switching the preparation would result in massive disablements for the said regiment in game. IRL, it was more of a question of pre-operation planning and preparation for contingencies - carrying charts, maps and photos of both the main target and alternative.
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adarbrauner
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RE: Prep Points

Post by adarbrauner »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

That's stuff for staff members and from rank of colonel up only. Troop training is not dedicated to one specific location only of course. And it must not be.

No one under Colonel (full) rank is given any information about the final objective not in the slightest. Day before action officers are briefed. and then the troops.

Except you'd be completely wrong here. There are myriad films of the era showing troops, down to privates, being briefed with aerial photos, sand tables, and 3-D models of actual defensive emplacements before landing
My issue with the prep system is not its existence; that's history. It's how long it takes to prep a landing. Three months is excessive. That was a game design decision.


maybe just immediately prior to landing - or onboard final target bounded, isolated from mainland and chatting- but not earlier by any extent
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Prep Points

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


maybe just immediately prior to landing - or onboard final target bounded, isolated from mainland and chatting- but not earlier by any extent

You're moving your goalposts from up-thread.
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adarbrauner
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RE: Prep Points

Post by adarbrauner »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58




You're moving your goalposts from up-thread.

I'm afraid I have not understood..
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morganbj
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RE: Prep Points

Post by morganbj »

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

There's another reason behind the Prep Points feature, I think, even more important. Generic preparation for a landing should be enough, so why the need to get prepped and trained 100 in advance for Tarawa atoll rather than Wake atoll, for example?

I think this is the only way the designers and developers found to get knowledge of JApan's plans to be propagated through Sigint receptions.
I think it is because an amphib landing is not just the process of getting past obstacles and to the beach. Once on the beach the troops need to know where the enemy fortifications and terrain obstacles are, where their objectives are in relation to where they actually landed, what units will be nearby (for cooperation and to prevent friendly fire incidents), where the ammo dumps and food/water supplies will be, etc., etc.

So they have to study a lot of detail and then practice in similar terrain before they can be considered fully prepped. Then the Army/Marine administration will transfer out some key troops and the replacements need to be prepped ... [8|]


That's stuff for staff members and from rank of colonel up only. Troop training is not dedicated to one specific location only of course. And it must not be.

No one under Colonel (full) rank is given any information about the final objective not in the slightest. Day before action officers are briefed. and then the troops.
Well, this is not exactly true.

When time permits, troops are "rehearsed" over similar terrain, and at similar times of day as the expected operation. Yes, the troops will not know the NAME of the place, nor where exactly it is, but they will know, for example, that they will have to scale cliffs, or struggle through surf, if those things are already known by the intelligence officers and higher command.

The problem is always the unexpected, e.g., the inability to get to the beach at Tarawa. The depth of the surf was just incorrectly estimated so the Marines had to wade through the surf to get ashore.

But, having spent many years in the Army, I can guarantee you that we rehearsed whenever we could over very similar terrain and similar times of day. (Weather was always a confounding variable, though.) We also trained for contingencies: those things that might go wrong. Small operations were easier to train for in this manner, but a lot could be done with larger ops as well. Read about the training for the Normandy landings.

And another thing to remember, when embarked, there was little reason in those days to worry about who knew what, as there was virtually no way to communicate off ship. So, telling the troops and sailors where they were going and what they were to do was normally preferable. In the Pacific, they might be embarked for a week, maybe more, giving them quite a bit of time to look at maps, terrain boards, and the like.

Prep ALWAYS helps in real life, as does experience. What I hated was getting a written op order two hours before operation start, when the division staff had known about the operation for several days. That was a recipe for disaster. An alert order would have been nice, but hey, it's the military. FUBAR was the motto.

Occasionally, and randomly, problems and solutions collide. The probability of these collisions is inversely related to the number of committees working on the solutions. -- Me.
adarbrauner
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RE: Prep Points

Post by adarbrauner »

The point, BJ, is that it does not make a lot of difference being diverted to a different, though much similar, target a few days before - after you've already fully prepped, rehearsed,and trained;

for the purpose of getting intelligence of real Japanese plans though, that's yes relevant.

exactly the example you brought up: do you think it may have made big difference for the troops training being diverted from Utah beach to, let's say, Calais area a week, or less, in advance (apart for the carnage and bloodhshed this would have ensued)?
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