Good discussion. Dead horse? This pony runs!ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
ORIGINAL: witpqs
In Hong Kong you can set supply to stockpile and it will only leave the base to supply units within range. As an aside, that might be what Dan wants at the time. I really doubt that he will have so little transit able to bring supply to the China coast that his units there will starve.ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
These two statements are in opposition.
Supply is "destroyed" by use.
No to both. In this situation it's the wrong call, and supply is consumed by use, not destroyed.
All I'm arguing is to secure production right here, with no time lag, where possible, while the supply pile is un-used by combat . . yet.
I wouldn't repair LI in Melbourne. I would in HK.
Here is a key point: any supply generated by repaired LI will also be pulled out to nourish nearby Chinese Army units. Bases do not retain any supply in the face of starving LCU calling for supply. At one time they did but they do not any longer. That change was made a long time ago.
Before this fades into the AAR mists . . .
Yeah, I beat them horses. Especially dead ones. At the risk of hijacking, a few more thoughts. This stuff might be better on the main, but I think CR likes to let the AAR go off track a bit, and this doesn't risk exposing a supply discussion to John. It's also pretty esoteric; after eight years those of us here from the beginning have beat most topics to death.
Above, my choice of phrase "supply is 'destroyed' by use" was on purpose. The quote indicates I know it's not destroyed, but I could have worded it better. I meant it's not available for any other purpose. Not that its consumption has no utility.
A supply pile at a base, say, here in China, has several uses. It can gross up the garrison LCUs' internal supply to required + 20 (where it stops.) It can fund combat operations in up to three dimensions (air, land, naval.) It can flow to neighboring bases. It can supply LCUs in the field. (You pointing this out was something I had not overtly considered.) It can build infrastructure. Or it can repair damaged industry.
So, control now. Some of these paths can be stopped. Some can be regulated. Some are wide open and automatic. Flowing to field LCUs is the last, but only after other, earlier checked, uses for supply are satisfied. A garrison will take on supply before a distant field LCU so far as I know. I think an AF will be expanded first too. Not as sure of that. But ultimately, if there's enough supply, field LCUs--Chinese units here--will dip in.
That can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on the player's plans and the overall status of the theater. But I think it's true that the only way to prevent or minimize that flow to distant LCUs is to either burn up the supply 1) fighting with the garrison (or flying missions, or supplying TFs if a port), 2) building infrastructure, or 3) encapsulating 1000 points of supply per day in future industrial outflows, such as LI supply repair. Repairing LI captures supply in a very overt way and holds it local, to be used over the rest of the campaign. The ROI is bad, yes. But it's positive. Sending that 1000 supply to Chinese Corps X 30 hexes away (and losing some in transit) might be a better use, or it might not, depending on circumstances.
Now, as I said to CR in another post, I'm under no illusions what local LI can do. The vast majority of Allied supply will come from far away, by ship. But local LI is an insurance policy. It doesn't need time, or fuel, or escorts, or player management to happen. In most cases it won't be damaged and it will produce by itself. It can't be turned off. If it is damaged usually it's only partly. If the damage is minor against the total it might not be worth repairing. And if the LI is located somewhere that shipborne supply is easy and safe, then the ROI takes precedence. But IMO it's incorrect to say "never repair LI." Sometimes you should.
It's also important to point out that not everywhere with LI is China. LI production on Java or Sumatra, for example, is a different set of variables. Self-funding Java after it is taken makes a fair bit of sense, from a shipping POV as well as player task overhead.
As an aside, outside LI repair, the questions of whether to repair other types of damage are even more interesting. For example, I would argue that without exception an Allied player should instantly repair any and all Shipyard damage, no matter location and no matter size. The ROI is instantaneous and significant, even if the yard can only fix subs and DDs. The question of repairing Oil or Refineries is more difficult. I would not repair Oil on Boela, for example. Northern Borneo? Probably yes, in 1944-45. The ROI on the supply is fairly nonsensical there. It's apples to oranges. The fleet freedom bought with a drink at Miri can't really be weighed against the supply lift equation from CONUS. They're measured in different units.
Anyway, LI repair.
Not sure if supply will ever go directly to a unit 30 hexes away considering the terrain cost of supply movement (max 100). Remember to stockpile supply and it will not leave the base to go to another base. Don't want it to supply planes? Don't fly them or take replacements. Don't want it to expand the base? Don't expand the base. Don't want it to rearm ships? Don't rearm ships. Don't want it to buy replacements for LCU? Turn off replacements for units in the base or within range. Same for repairing anything you don't want to repair.
The only use of supply that I can think of which is out of your easy control is supply for LCU within range (including inside that base but excluding those inside other bases). You can turn off replacements in those LCU but their daily usage of supply (including for combat) can result in them drawing supply from the base in question.
Supply can also be destroyed by enemy action. Presuming the base is safe from capture, that means air or naval bombardment. Converting that supply to LI does not make it safe. Even if LI is harder to hit from the air (I'm not certain about that but it does seem tough in my experience) each hit wacks 1,000 supply used for the repairs minus whatever was yielded up to that time. If you have adequate AA and/or CAP to protect the LI, then you also have adequate AA and/or CAP to protect the raw supply, yes?
Provided that you take the steps to keep the supply in the base in question, repairing the LI is a marginal call at best. And supply produced by the LI will also go to LCU in the field with none held in reserve. In other words, when units in the field need supply, the base will give up all it has if that much is needed, bringing the base to 0 on hand. Consider what that does to CAP flying and AA firing before you decide to store that supply in LI.
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