Scenario 4: Salvo

Command: Chains of War is a DLC for Command: Modern Operations. 20 minutes into the future, a spark erupts in the Korean peninsula that will lead to a theaterwide conflagration embroiling the entire Western Pacific and drag all major powers into it.
schmolywar
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Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by schmolywar »

How in the world do you manage to penetrate the missile defenses of Okinawa and Korea? Even with the special options going I cant get through. Explain to me your saturation strategy.
"The Russian advance over this hastily improvised road, constructed with the aid of the most primitive facilities, was, for a time,accompanied by the strains of band music.".

-Peculiarities of russian warfare
schmolywar
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by schmolywar »

Using the low altitude slow moving cruise missiles in concert with the ballistic rockets is of no use either. The cruise missiles are dealt with by the US planes and wont saturate the patriots or THAADs.
"The Russian advance over this hastily improvised road, constructed with the aid of the most primitive facilities, was, for a time,accompanied by the strains of band music.".

-Peculiarities of russian warfare
blkholsun
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by blkholsun »

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'd be fascinated to learn the "trick" that makes this scenario possible... I've tried it three times in different manners and get absolutely nowhere. This last time I tried coordinating an all-in strike where every cruise missile, every rocket, and every jet that I have all coordinate more-or-less simultaneously, and there were still <10 hits, probably more like <5 but I quit in frustration without checking.
schmolywar
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by schmolywar »

blkholsun, do you have any idea if taking out the 3 radars near Okinawa helps? Id assume the patriots will even shoot down the Krypton ARMs.
"The Russian advance over this hastily improvised road, constructed with the aid of the most primitive facilities, was, for a time,accompanied by the strains of band music.".

-Peculiarities of russian warfare
gosnold
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by gosnold »

Same, I'm getting nowhere with the PLA rocket force. I think it's partly because the SM-3 is overpowered: the Reagan CVBG intercepts my missiles before they reach Okinawa, 800nm away from the carrier. Plus they do 180° in mid-air when retargeting.
I managed to sink the Reagan though, I think it had expended all its SM-3s.
juanchopancho
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by juanchopancho »

It's a tough nut to crack I was able to damage 6 runways and sink the CV. No luck with Guam though. Going to need to play this one a lot more.

Good stuff though! [:D]
mikmykWS
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by mikmykWS »

Hi Guys

Are you using your strike assets to soften up defenses? Lots of ARM armed and strike missiles to be used against systems that can challenge your ballistic missiles.

Mike
jmax
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by jmax »

It's a real challenge juggling all your air assets to achieve saturation, but you have lots to work with. First thing I did was sortie nearly all my H-6s and loiter at low altitude staging areas behind mountains while I set up my AEW, Tankers, jammers and escorts, in preparation for a quick one-two punch with standoff strike packages and my Dong Fengs.

Definitely my favourite scenario so far. It's more or less what I was trying to do with my "Breaking the Chain" scenario, but from the PLA side and focused on Japan and Korea rather than Taiwan and the Philippine Sea. I'd be interested to hear other player strategies — may be helpful for designing AI missions for the Chinese side.
blkholsun
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by blkholsun »

I guess this scenario was just a real wake-up call for me that I'm not as good at this game as I thought I was. It is by far the most challenging CMANO scenario I've ever played. I just cannot achieve anything whatsoever... I try to "soften up" the defenses as suggested but whatever I try just gets swatted down as easily as everything else. I don't think I've ever managed to hit anything with an ARM. I've tried it eight times now and I still don't think I've ever destroyed a single target on Guam (in my most "successful" run to date I did manage to knock out three radars in Korea, but that's it) so I'm giving up on it for now. I hope someday somebody puts up a video of a successful run at this so that I can conceptualize how in the world it's done.
Tailhook
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by Tailhook »

I think the penalty for losing a plane is too high. Losses are inevitable to the AIM-120D wielding Americans, you pretty much need to use a massed attack to punch a hole through, but it's often not worth it, points wise.

Also getting an issue where it seems like points aren't being rewarded for strikes on tarmac, open parking, and smaller hangars. I successfully landed 100+ cruise missiles on Guam thanks to the H-6 bombers, but got few points for it.
blkholsun
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by blkholsun »

Yeah I don't understand how to get in and out without suffering huge losses, even with local numerical superiority.
jmax, could you provide just a touch more insight into how you accomplished this scenario? What was the make-up of your strike packages that were successful, and what did you target?
jmax
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by jmax »

@blkholsun: I haven't actually beaten the scenario yet! It took me a couple hours just to organize — played a bit more today, and the results so far have been less than stellar. Even with jamming, multi-axis saturation, and judicious use of network-disrupting cyber attacks, most of my missiles missed the mark.

Now, if you're losing too many aircraft, I might be able to help with that. Local numerical superiority is key, but it still helps to be sneaky — I set all aircraft emissions to passive except for AEW, and prepared ambushes against the expected surge once the balloon went up. Some flights approached the enemy head on at 30000 or 12000 feet, periodically flashing their radars to draw attention, while others cruised at very low altitude waiting to pop up from the flanks. I typically fired all my BVR missiles as soon as possible, about 3 to each target, then RTB on low-altitude. A fair bit of micromanagement and I still lost a few, but opposing fighters were massacred and my escorts mopped up the rest.

My most successful strike packages comprised groups of 3x flights of H-6s accompanied by as many 4x flights of the nearest ARM-equipped attack aircraft I could muster once the bombers were assembled, flying low until it was time for the H-6s to toss out their ALCMs. I didn't manage my tanker assets very well and ran out of fuel on a couple attack runs — not wanting their payloads to go to waste, I ordered some shorter-range attack aircraft (mostly the older J-7s) to ditch in the drink around Okinawa and wait for some friendly American or Japanese CSAR =P As for targets, I like to hit vulnerable avgas, ammo stockpiles and surrounding tarmac and access points, but given the scenario's short timeframe and scoring, I kept it simple and tried to crater the runways with between 40-60 CJ-10s apiece, aimed for hangars and shelters with my ballistic missiles, and hunted down PAC batteries and other mobile emitters with my ARMs (with little success =/).
gosnold
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by gosnold »

I just realized that the US side has only 48 SM-3 block II (12 on the Benfold and 32 on the CVBG). It will shoot those at any ballistic missile in range, so you can force it to expend them by launching a few DF-15 or 16 one by one (it will launch two SM-3s per missile, and waste at least one because there is no other target).
After the block IIs are expended, the remaining ABM systems are THAAD and SM-3 block Is, which have a much shorter range. So you can then pick apart the US AEW network, and get target patriot batteries with DF-21s that are much harder to intercept.
DismalPseudoscience
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by DismalPseudoscience »

Yessssss! Finally got this, on my 4th try. Will post a full AAR later today, but here are the key points:

1) Do NOT risk your aircraft. Don't send them anywhere near the enemy.
2) The scoring is very tight. The Reagan is worth 1000 pts, and each runway and satellite is 100. There are only 11 runways counting Guam, and hangars are an utterly worthless investment at either 10 pts or zero pts each, depending on type. Always target 100% of your weapons on runways - you can't afford to fail to hit one.
3) Do not strike Guam. It is too far, worth only 200pts for the two runways, and too well defended. I found that the THAAD disruption didn't work fully against Guam, and all my DF-26s were intercepted anyway. It costs 200pts, too, so you can at best break even. Far better to use your DF-26s against Okinawa, where they can help make a difference.
4) Okinawa is key since it has 4 runways. Try to get it with all ballistic missiles available nearby, including the DF-26s. You can hopefully get through and neutralize all 4 runways with saturation.
5) Attack Okinawa and Korea first, but while doing the above for Okinawa, use only short range missiles on Korea. The purpose of the Korea attack is to draw out the SM-3IIs, as gosnold described above.
6) Use DF-21Cs after (5) to hit the 3 Japanese mainland bases. You have 4 regiments, so 1 is spare for either a Korea strike or Okinawa mop up.
7) Make sure to drive your western DF-21D battery east for an hour or two so it can be in range of the Reagan.
8) After all the above steps, hit the Reagan.
9) Satellites are a big deal points wise - watch for them and be ready to intercept.

Guam is unfeasible - if you hit all other runways and the Reagan you only get 1900 points of the 2000 you need, 1700 if you feel the justifiable need to disrupt the Korean THAAD. Satellites will make up for whichever runways you miss. I missed the Korean bases and picked up 5 satellites and 5 worthless structures for a mere 2050 - but that was enough.

You'll notice I didn't mention the 300 cruise missiles you have. I tried to overwhelm Korea with them and failed. Perhaps I could have succeeded if I took my own advice about 100% runway focus.

Edit: My AAR.
mikmykWS
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo

Post by mikmykWS »

nice job[8D]
ridgeback68
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

Post by ridgeback68 »

Hey all,

I used a very similar strategy to DismalPseudoscience and got through first go and no losses at all.

Some **MAJOR SPOILERS** ahead, so please don't read if you want to do this yourself:



- Set up three AEW support missions - North, Centre & South - you don't have to worry about relief as the scenario is only 6 hours.

- Set up some CAPs immediately in front of each of the AEW patrols as a bit of protection. I used the PL-15 armed aircraft first as the PL-15 seems to out-range anything the West has. These CAPs came in handy to knock down some fighters that ended up chasing my AEW. They also came in handy to intercept the retaliatory US cruise missile strike.

- Used the land based cruise missiles, the Flounders (ARM and cruise missile) and the ARM Flankers to launch some pre-emptive strikes on Korea and Okinawa. Didn't achieve anything but I used them in a war of attrition to soak up valuable defensive missiles (Patriots etc)

- Launched all my Badgers at scenario start and sent them towards Guam between Taiwan and The Philippines. When in range they launched all their cruise missiles at Guam. Guam only has a THAAD battery which is useless against the cruise missiles. I only targeted the runways, but you can go beserk and target just about everything - it's undefended.

- The only special action I used was to disrupt the Korean THAAD. It's well worth the 200 points.

- As noted by Dismalpseudoscience and gosnold there are limited SM-3's. With the Korean THAAD out of play it is left to those SM-3's and Patriots. The Patriots are also very effective at closer range but you can overwhelm them.

- There are two ASAT battery's with two missiles each. I fired them singly and got 3 out of 4 hits. Good for 300 points.


It really was a fun scenario but I have to admit there's something not quite right with attacking the US/Japan/South Korea and sinking a US Carrier Battle Group!

Hope it helps.

Edit: spelling

jmax
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

Post by jmax »

Good tips, guys. Can anyone tell me what the point threshold for victory is?

I think I've got a good handle on how to win this one now. As mentioned above, not losing aircraft is key—but that shouldn't mean not using them, you just can't afford to let the AI play 'em unless it's AEW escort. I had a nearly 20:1 kill/loss ratio in air-to-air, and the ones I did lose I either got too close or (more often) just wasn't paying attention. While you don't win points for shooting down enemy aircraft, you can give your slow-moving cruise missiles a better chance at overwhelming their defenses by engaging and destroying their surged air forces.

@ridgeback68: It occurred to me that the H-6s' ALCMs could thwart Guam's THAAD, but I'd expect you'd need pretty much all of them to overwhelm the PAC batteries. It sounds like you had a turkey shoot, but based on your experience, what would you say is the bare minimum of Badgers needed to crater the runways? Like Dismal, I wrote it off, but for different reasons—it's just such a long way, and seems kinda gamey not having to worry about ROC or Philippine airspace in this timeline. It's certainly a viable avenue for attack, though, assuming local superiority in the SCS.
jmax
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Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:39 am

RE: Scenario 4: Salvo *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

Post by jmax »

It really was a fun scenario but I have to admit there's something not quite right with attacking the US/Japan/South Korea and sinking a US Carrier Battle Group!

Yea, I know what you mean. Bit of a spine-tingling chill when I sank the Reagan—the highest priority target was also by far the easiest to hit. I suppose that may not be unrealistic as it's difficult to hide 100,000 tons of American diplomacy, but then I would also expect its real world counterparts to be more stingy and discriminating with their ABM supply so close to Yokosuka!
ridgeback68
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

Post by ridgeback68 »

Can anyone tell me what the point threshold for victory is?

2000 points

ORIGINAL: jmax
It sounds like you had a turkey shoot, but based on your experience, what would you say is the bare minimum of Badgers needed to crater the runways?

The Runways are 1400 damage points and the KD-20's are 500 DP each so it only takes three missiles to kill the runway. With all 17 Badgers you have 100+ missiles. It's a massacre.
...seems kinda gamey not having to worry about ROC or Philippine airspace in this timeline. It's certainly a viable avenue for attack, though, assuming local superiority in the SCS.

Yeah but I looked at it this way - the shooting war hadn't started yet and I flew in international airspace between those two countries...[:)].
mikmykWS
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RE: Scenario 4: Salvo *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

Post by mikmykWS »

Some great approaches guys. It's always neat to see how people solve problems.

Mike
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