Newb question : strategic bombing

[jboldt007]

Hi again - is there any value in "hiding" saved oil and BPS in locations where there are factories? In strategic bombing, points are lost first for factories and oil fields, then saved oil and BPs. In areas like the U.K. where cities might be exposed to bombing raids, would this be a thing to consider because lost points are only are for the current turn- whereas I presume saved BPs and oil points are simply lost. Maybe it doesn't make a difference as a point lost is a point lost...?

Do players find full on strategic bombing worth it? It costs allot to build all those Lancasters and Wellingtons and it does tie up Axis fighters but seems allot
Of effort (and oil) to knock off a few BPs per turn- if playing with factory destruction at least the factories can be damaged.

[Joseignacio]

What I am surprised is that you as CW worry about this, I have had London bombed a couple of times but it's not usual because the GE player needs his planes elsewhere, apart from the fact that he needs to invest too much in fighters + tactical + nav, not much opportunity for strat bombers.

As for the petrol I believe you are right, unless you believe the enemy will be able to make several points of damage it would seem there is no point to hide them. I always hide them out of prudence, but maybe I shouldn't.

And as for the allies, "a few BP per turn" may be a lot. 3 a turn mean an inf corps less per turn, if you go for it with the strat bomb maybe 5 per turn, as a german player I can tell you it feels... Plus you force an exchange that may be expensive for allies but costs the GE points as well in fighters and pilots.

Of course you can only be really compensated in these exchanges in the early times, where you can escort your planes to short range objectives, like Lille, Rouen?, Stuttgart, Cologne, Dusseldorf, ..., or late times when the (usually american) strat bombers have enough own A2A factors to present a reasonable fight (although still weaker of course), but sometimes you may find areas without GE fighter cover if he is tight in planes in USSR or makes bad building decisions.

4 + 2 points of a strat bomb are more than a possible lose of 2 + 2 or more probably 3 + 2 for a GE player, but the allies have way more production and what they need to, is to erode the GE power forcing exchanges the GE can afford worse than them. Although it's true that it's more probable for the allies to lose the pilot than the GE beacause the terrain is hostile...

And besides, the STrat bombers have some tactical factors, and can serve as such in case of need, even if they are not so useful as real tacticals.

[Centuur]

And there is of course the fact that a fact that the Allies can bomb Germany ties up FTR's to defend those factories. If you allow the Luftwaffe to have all FTR's on the frontlines, it becomes pretty difficult for the Soviets to come back. Now, if you have a nice force of long range bombers sitting around in the UK, Germany has to make a choice where to put his precious FTR's...

Simply fly when there is no FTR cover. It's worth the oil expenditure by the Allies. They should have plenty around...

[jboldt007]

Thanks for comments . Yeah it was more of a general question - London as you said gets hit a couple times but nothing to worry about. Most players are also going to save their oil / BPs as much out of harm's way as possible,

Tying up GE fighters is important as noted, GE air superiority is a thing to be feared I've found, plus all those landcasters etc, as noted have other uses - even as emergency naval air support if the German navy tries to get frisky in the later game turns.

[Dabrion]

Strat-Campaign is an all in thing. Once German factories can be hit with ~20 factors in 3+ hex every turn the fun starts. This can be quite effective (one of the reasons the variable reorg option exists) and allows to trade BPs 1:1 without putting D-Day assets on the table. The long range is also excellent for naval interception. I have never seen a full scale Axis strat bombing campaign.

p.s.: try to bomb Germany/Italy itself and not the places close by with your ~20+ strat stacks, or you will liberate a heap of rubble when the time comes

[jboldt007]

Yeah - not a good idea to just keep hitting the Low Countries and northern France! Until those p-51s arrive it is hard to start bomb effectively into germany it seems (unless CW can re-base closer) depending on what Germany leaves there for air defence. Night bombing with mosquito cover and beauforts can do well at first it seems but Germany can purchase some tough nightfighters if they want to retaliate.

[jboldt007]

Germany has some good strat bombers- I guess there are just too many other priorities for the axis

[AlbertN]

Germany cannot keep too many FTRs in Germany.
UK can easily swarm one zone with X bombers where only 1 fighter covers.

Things change with the En Route Interception - which I feel it would be a sort of must to avoid paras and strat bombers "teleporting" on the target zone.

[Dabrion]

Yes it doesn't really draw too much attention usually, since at that stage when it gets threatening they usually have to cover Brest, Bordeaux and Gib with with Air. The B17s can hold on their own in the fights, but it is good to have escort fighters to take aborts on. Also very satisfying to shoot down German jets with them

Engs + HQs in Dover/London area allow you to stack 20+ bombers in range of the Ruhrgebiet. And you get a second wave on 10 of them. The Liberators are also good 0-box reactions if you have them spare and need a high-range plane there. For D-Day they can be used in a tac role.

[jboldt007]

You know at first when I first learning to use strategic bombing Allies tried bombing blue factories in low countries and France and the game wouldn't let them and I was thinking : what the heck... is this a bug ...? but of course it dawned on me that blue factories can't be used by the conquering nation and so the game won't let you bomb them ( and there would be no point in any event of course)..

[paulderynck]

The reason why is that you can only strat bomb a factory that has the ability to produce for the enemy. This can make quite a difference situationally FREX Japan late war.

Others of interest are:
- when a resource is being lent to a factory that otherwise cannot produce, bomb the factory and then cut the CP line
- or a surrounded factory that has no resource that can trace to it, but does have an oil stored in it
- or you bomb a factory and then take the hex it is in

These are all known as "double-dipping" and all are legal.

[jboldt007]

Ahhh ... so ... a red factory which can't produce cannot be bombed by the opponent as well? Would make sense if there were no BPs to lose...
To date in current game the strategic bombing has centred on red factories in north- west Germany which are all active.

I didn't understand the last one - bomb the factory then take the hex?

[Centuur]

If you first do a succesfull strategic bombardment on a factory hex and take that hex it later in the turn, the power who lost that factory loses two production points. One from the strategic bombardment of the city and one since it cannot use that factory for production anymore...

[jboldt007]

Ah! Good one!

[Dabrion]

Paul .. did they do something against the double dip madness in RAW8?

[paulderynck]

I don't think it's been changed.