What happens if (when?) Moscow falls?

[GeneralJackDRipper]

Based on the seemingly unstoppable advantages that the Axis has in Barbarossa, I'm assuming that losing Moscow is nearly an inevitability. Should the Capital fall, where should a Soviet player next defend as they hope to catch up in manpower and tech?

[sPzAbt653]

If Moscow falls, the Soviet capital will move to Kuybyshev, and if that city is lost it will then move to Perm. But don't fall back as you need to keep the German bombers away from the capitals. I say this because I have noticed that when playing the computer it will bomb the enemy capitals which will ruin your supply levels. Dastardly !
Also, the more Resources that you lose, the lower your MPP's go. I kind of disagree with this for the Soviets, as they had vast industrial areas east of the Urals. But this game does have some added MPP's if you advance that far.

[GeneralJackDRipper]

Excellent, thank you, SPZABT

[Leadwieght]

When I lost Moscow in a recent game, I was surprised that Soviet MPP production didn't drop all that much. I was still taking in 600 MPPs (not counting convoys from GB and USA which brought it up to about 800). But my opponent had put everything into taking Moscow and Leningrad, and I still held much of the Donets basin industrial area and the Caucasus oilfields (Maikop, Grozny and Baku).

I also noticed that the Western Allies seemed to be sending extra convoys to the Soviets after the fall of Moscow, without me seeing a DE.

But I eventually got stomped anyway. Not much you can do against King Tigers if you haven't been able to invest in Tanks or Anti-Tank Guns.

[BillRunacre]

ORIGINAL: Leadwieght

When I lost Moscow in a recent game, I was surprised that Soviet MPP production didn't drop all that much. I was still taking in 600 MPPs (not counting convoys from GB and USA which brought it up to about 800). But my opponent had put everything into taking Moscow and Leningrad, and I still held much of the Donets basin industrial area and the Caucasus oilfields (Maikop, Grozny and Baku).

I also noticed that the Western Allies seemed to be sending extra convoys to the Soviets after the fall of Moscow, without me seeing a DE.

Hi Leadwieght

When Moscow falls you'll lose the production that it provides, but the capital will move so there is no extra MPP penalty above that. Morale will take a big hit though.

I'm not sure what extra convoys you might be referring to, as the fall of Moscow doesn't trigger anything like that. Maybe the growth in the UK's income through Industrial Technology research triggered an increase in the amount they could send via convoy? Or it coincidentally coincided with the US sending supplies via Persia or Vladivostock?

Bill

[Leadwieght]

Hi Bill,
I might have hallucinated seeing the extra convoys on the MPP report screen--it pops up and disappears fairly quickly. It wasn't the new addition of the Vladivostock or Persian convoys; it was 1944 and those had begun long before. I probably was just suffering from PTSD after watching 4 King Tiger Panzergruppe shred my last defences!

LW

[BillRunacre]

Haha, I imagine I'd be feeling the same too! [:D]

[Leadwieght]

One thing that seems to have changed in 1.08 is the supply rules regarding Moscow after it's captured. In a current game as the Axis, I managed to take it in late '42, but my opponent kept a line of units just to the east that I was not able to drive off. The supply level of both Moscow hexes never moved up from zero, even though the city was connected to Axis territory by several rail links. This meant that I couldn't Operate units to the city and I had to keep HQs right behind the line to keep it in reasonable suppy. I think I will eventually lose the city in large part because of this. is this WAD?

[BillRunacre]

Hi Leadwieght

Has he got two units adjacent to Moscow?

If so then it might be that as Moscow is no longer the capital, the resource besieging rule could keep its strength down.

Might that be what you're seeing here?

Thanks

Bill

[Leadwieght]

Hi Bill,

Yes that's it. I forgot that Moscow ceases to be a capital when the Germans take it and thus it loses its immunity to being effected by the presence of adjacent units.

Makes sense. Guess I'll have to roll them back a hex...

LW

[MickM2]

In one of my games I lost Moscow early and I am unable to place 2 reinforcement units that were due to appear on the map in Moscow after it was captured. Presumably I have to recapture Moscow in order to place these units?

[BillRunacre]

Hi Mick

Yes, as those units were scheduled to arrive at Moscow I'm afraid that liberating the city is the only way to get these units.

I'm going to consider making an adjustment for those who do lose Moscow early. Can you remember roughly when Moscow fell in your game?

Thanks

Bill

[MickM2]

Yes it fell in the autumn of 1941. One of the units is the Soviet Paratroop unit scheduled to arrive in Moscow in December 1941 but now stuck in the production pool.

[BillRunacre]

Thanks Mick, I'll change that and another that is due to arrive that autumn. [:)]

[Stryder]

Hi Bill, what version will this change be included with?


Thx

[BillRunacre]

Hi

It'll be in the next proper release as I've made the changes (by proper release I am leaving aside any Hotfixes, should there be any for technical reasons).