Wrangling Loki - Mind_Messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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mind_messing
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

June 17th to June 29th, 1945

North Pacific

The Allies step up their naval game in the Kuriles, sending fast carriers in support of battleships to bombard the exposed airbases on Hokkaido. Most Japanese aircraft are kept back in reserve, bar some expendable Judy dive bombers that are keeping up the pretence of resistance.

Lots of strikes at night against the Allied fleet, but nothing to show for it bar some experience increases in the pilots.

Everything is being kept on a short leash here - when amphibs appear I'll go all in.

Formosa

I'm suspecting this will be Loka's next target, and to that end preparations are in place.

There's not a chance of a successful defense here, considering that with so much of China in Allied hands, there's an abundance of bases for land-based aircraft to support the invasion from, let alone aircraft from Luzon. Nevertheless, I'll have a plink at the Allies with night naval strikes and maybe some kamis from the smaller bases.

On the ground, there's something like 3000 AV, mostly concentrated on the west coast of Formosa. The open terrain will be a kiler, however.

Given the wider strategic picture, Formosa is an afterthought. It's now Okinawa that concerns me.

China

My Kaifeng counterattack turns to farce. The initial attack repulses the Chinese, and I load my troops on to trains to pull them back. However, Loka mounts continual paratrooper raids on the units for four days after they move into strategic mode, which cancels their movement each day, so they never actually leave the hex. Much salt on my part.

The battered units are now moving normally across the North China Plain, and pretty much everywhere south of Peiping everything Japanese is running north.

Canton and Shanghai are subjected to deliberate attacks, and the Chinese troops investing these fortresses suffer heavily. The situation at Nanking is looking ropey, but the collaborationist trash in that base won't stand for long anyways.

Home Islands

The monumental buildup of air and ground assets continues, hampered somewhat by the ever-increasing Allied strategic bombing effort. Overall, the damage has been fairly moderate, but the hit to production caused by fires is starting to be felt.

Key units destroyed on Luzon are being returned, including Air HQ's, big base forces and the Wake CD unit. Most are heading to Hokkaido.

At sea, I'm due to get several battleships and carriers back operational within the next few weeks. They're all going to be sent to Peter the Great Gulf in anticipation for Soviet activation and as bait for the Allied fast carriers - if I can draw them deep into the Sea of Japan then I'll chance committing what naval and air assets I have left to blocking them in there, but I have little hope that Loka will be so foolhardy.

Supply is still acceptable...

Manchuria

With a month left to go before Soviet activation, final preparations to deal with the Soviet horde are nearing completion. There's not much left to do in truth, other than parcel out the evacuated units from China amongst the current garrison.

The smaller IJA units and collaborationist trash will serve as road and rail blockers, and the bigger units are being sent to smaller bases in Korea as anti-paratrooper units.

I've formed a reasonable fighter force in Manchuria to attempt to mitigate the damage that Soviet air power will do, but I'm loath to send any of the really good airframes here for fear of weakening the defense of the Home Islands.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

When you get to Soviet activation I'd really like more updates. I think that could be an epic period for both of you.
The Moose
mind_messing
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

When you get to Soviet activation I'd really like more updates. I think that could be an epic period for both of you.


Yeah, I plan to. Soviets are rarely seen in AAR's, and I think I may be in the best position overall to respond to them that I've seen. Not that I have much hope, mind you.

Currently there's not much really interesting going on, other than me getting bombed and slowly pushed back in China, with the occasional sweep or two, and the turns are grinding at this stage in the game if you want to make sure everything is as it should.

I'm still torn about overall strategy in Manchuria. With the Chinese so close, I'm wondering if the best recourse is to cut my losses and run back to North Korea.

On a OT note that you might appreciate: was at a friends birthday night yesterday and her partner is a RN submariner - surprised a few there with knowing the finer points of distinction between SSN's and SSBN's, amongst other odds and ends.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

When you get to Soviet activation I'd really like more updates. I think that could be an epic period for both of you.


Yeah, I plan to. Soviets are rarely seen in AAR's, and I think I may be in the best position overall to respond to them that I've seen. Not that I have much hope, mind you.

Currently there's not much really interesting going on, other than me getting bombed and slowly pushed back in China, with the occasional sweep or two, and the turns are grinding at this stage in the game if you want to make sure everything is as it should.

I'm still torn about overall strategy in Manchuria. With the Chinese so close, I'm wondering if the best recourse is to cut my losses and run back to North Korea.

On a OT note that you might appreciate: was at a friends birthday night yesterday and her partner is a RN submariner - surprised a few there with knowing the finer points of distinction between SSN's and SSBN's, amongst other odds and ends.

RN bubbleheads are getting more rare all the time. SSNs and boomers are really two different navies.

On giving up China, I don't know. You know my opinion and my AI game experience with the Sovs. I don't think there's really anything you can do. [8D] I know you think you can slow them down, but you have no idea. The arty alone is orders of magnitude worse than anything you've seen. Their motor rifle divisions are fast, so the more spread the more hexside games. When I played them in an AI game I didn't even worry about the air war. Didn't need to.
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mind_messing
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

Image


Well, that's that out the road I suppose. Recent Allied strat bombing efforts and success in China peaks them over the critical 2:1 VP ratio.

Loka and I will continue on for a few months however, as I'm nowhere near beat. The Japanese industrial base is fairly intact and there's still plenty of supply. We both want to see the Soviets, and I want to see the best way of whacking a late-war Allied invasion of the Home Islands.
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Lowpe
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by Lowpe »

So you made July 30! [&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

Can I see a picture of the score screen?
mind_messing
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

So you made July 30! [&o][&o][&o][&o][&o]

Can I see a picture of the score screen?

Here you go.

Image

Points to note (hehehehehe) are air losses and base points. The poor rate-of-exchange in terms of aircraft points, I think, lost me the chance of stalling out for a Minor Allied victory. Everything else is fairly equal, all things considered.

It's one of the downsides about the VP system, however. I doubt I'd have the supply or the industry to last to July without losing all those planes. In future, more care will be taken.
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Lowpe
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by Lowpe »

How did he get the strategic vp -- day or night bombing?

I lost like 60,000![X(]
mind_messing
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

How did he get the strategic vp -- day or night bombing?

I lost like 60,000![X(]

A mixture of both. Carrier strikes and naval bombardment of Hokkaido and night bombing of the rest of the Home Islands.
mind_messing
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

June 30th to July 14th, 1945

Despite the war officially being lost, the fighting carries on.

North Pacific

Fairly quiet up here, excepting Thunderbolt sweeps on Hokkaido. While the Allies get good exchange rates, I've factored this in to my CAP design, so the Allies are going up against a mix of airframes, with a few really nasty squadrons of Ki-94s and Shindens thrown in for good measure.

There's plenty of troops and supply on Hokkaido, and I've moved extra aviation support across as well. Even the Wake CD guns have made their way here after being bought back from Luzon.

Bonin Islands

I send what's left of the IJN carrier fleet to the waters off the Bonin Islands in an attempt to smack a USN task force reported without air cover. As it transpires, it was a CVE force.

While some slow E-class ships are able to get into gun range, they don't do any serious damage, and the IJN carriers lack the critical mass to break through the CAP and inflict serious damage. A shame, as it could have been a nice victory for this late stage of the war.

The Allies follow up with both air and naval bombardments of the Bonins. The defenders here are ready for landings, but there's no sign of it yet.

China

The Chinese spearhead reaches the outskirts of Peiping, effectively cutting off what Japanese units remain. Those units trapped are heading to the cities to stall the Allies as well as they can.

Nanking falls, with a respectable show of resistance from a garrison consisting mostly of trash units.

Kami's from Formosa get two hits on the BB Nelson, which was part of a TF attempting to bombard Hong Kong. Both hits penetrate, so hopefully that's one battleship in the yards.

Home Islands

With Soviet activation approaching, I'm concentrating naval assets in the Sea of Japan to hopefully smash the Soviet Pacific Fleet quickly, and remove the dagger posed by the Soviet naval units based from Vladivostok.

Once the Soviet Union is active, I plan to try and block any Allied intrustion into the Sea of Japan. Tsushima is closed by the CD guns, but I hope to keep the northern approaches blocked with kamis.

We'll see at any rate.

The first yellow exclaimation mark appears in a small base on Honshu this turn as well...
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PaxMondo
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by PaxMondo »

nice to see an update ...
ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Fairly quiet up here, excepting Thunderbolt sweeps on Hokkaido. While the Allies get good exchange rates, I've factored this in to my CAP design, so the Allies are going up against a mix of airframes, with a few really nasty squadrons of Ki-94s and Shindens thrown in for good measure.
Which one is working better for you? 94 or J7W?
ORIGINAL: mind_messing
The first yellow exclaimation mark appears in a small base on Honshu this turn as well...
Ouch ...
Pax
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Image


Well, that's that out the road I suppose. Recent Allied strat bombing efforts and success in China peaks them over the critical 2:1 VP ratio.

Loka and I will continue on for a few months however, as I'm nowhere near beat. The Japanese industrial base is fairly intact and there's still plenty of supply. We both want to see the Soviets, and I want to see the best way of whacking a late-war Allied invasion of the Home Islands.

Now that the picture is up, and the game is VP-over, I will say that Loka was in a bad way in this game at one point. When you were strong on Timor and he was having to deal with super-sized air groups, and all that stuff in that era, he was pretty low. We emailed a fair bit. But you know him as well as I do. He is a gorilla of a player. We kicked around some super-strat ideas, and the whole Sumatra thing came about. He had the better part of a year prep to do. It was a massive, worldwide shift of focus. You can imagine what he had to move and stockpile, and it was a risk. But he's that kind of player. To go from where he was in 1943--in all respects--to this is a mighty achievement. You gave him a lot more headaches than I have (you have the AAR from him after all [8D]), and I know the last game year has been a wild ride, but I just wanted you to know he was not at all confident the whole way through. You made him crazy many times.

Anybody lucky enough to play either of you will get all the game they can handle. You two might be the best-matched duo currently AARing at a high level of play. This was a real see-saw.
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mind_messing
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

nice to see an update ...
ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Fairly quiet up here, excepting Thunderbolt sweeps on Hokkaido. While the Allies get good exchange rates, I've factored this in to my CAP design, so the Allies are going up against a mix of airframes, with a few really nasty squadrons of Ki-94s and Shindens thrown in for good measure.
Which one is working better for you? 94 or J7W?
ORIGINAL: mind_messing
The first yellow exclaimation mark appears in a small base on Honshu this turn as well...
Ouch ...


The 94 and J7W seem to work best in tandem. Shinden low and the 94 high. If I had to make a choice, I'd go 94, but simply because Loka has decided that they're that good he needs to shut down the production with 4E strikes on the factories.

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Image


Well, that's that out the road I suppose. Recent Allied strat bombing efforts and success in China peaks them over the critical 2:1 VP ratio.

Loka and I will continue on for a few months however, as I'm nowhere near beat. The Japanese industrial base is fairly intact and there's still plenty of supply. We both want to see the Soviets, and I want to see the best way of whacking a late-war Allied invasion of the Home Islands.

Now that the picture is up, and the game is VP-over, I will say that Loka was in a bad way in this game at one point. When you were strong on Timor and he was having to deal with super-sized air groups, and all that stuff in that era, he was pretty low. We emailed a fair bit. But you know him as well as I do. He is a gorilla of a player. We kicked around some super-strat ideas, and the whole Sumatra thing came about. He had the better part of a year prep to do. It was a massive, worldwide shift of focus. You can imagine what he had to move and stockpile, and it was a risk. But he's that kind of player. To go from where he was in 1943--in all respects--to this is a mighty achievement. You gave him a lot more headaches than I have (you have the AAR from him after all [8D]), and I know the last game year has been a wild ride, but I just wanted you to know he was not at all confident the whole way through. You made him crazy many times.

Anybody lucky enough to play either of you will get all the game they can handle. You two might be the best-matched duo currently AARing at a high level of play. This was a real see-saw.

Thanks very much!

The Sumatra Shift was definitely what swung this game, but it was bound to happen regardless. There are so many leaks that Japan can plug before water starts getting in.

I think the real factor in it's overwhelming success was that it was very deftly timed. When the Allied ships showed up, the Timor Sea was littered with sunken warships and the Burma front had just been broken open and I was scrambling for troops to plug gaps. I distinctly remember key units being diverted to Burma and Makassar that were intended for Malaya. I doubt that they'd have made a difference to the eventual outcome, but they may have drawn out the campaign.

Funnily enough, that's one campaign I think I fought really well, in that it was a great delaying action with inferior assets. The IJN made a good showing off Palembang, and there's still two IJA divisions (battered and bruised) holding out on a mountainside in Sumatra still.

It has been a tempestuous game at times from the both of us, but I feel that's to be expected given the nature of the game.

I think part of it, as you say, is that we're pretty evenly matched, but Loka's temperament is far better suited to the nature of the game. His methodical nature is well known to us both, whereas I don't have the patience for the details.

On a related note, we'll see what round two has to offer, as I've the Dec 7th turn back...
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PaxMondo
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The 94 and J7W seem to work best in tandem. Shinden low and the 94 high. If I had to make a choice, I'd go 94, but simply because Loka has decided that they're that good he needs to shut down the production with 4E strikes on the factories.

/yeah, biggest drawback on the J7W ... low climb rate ... coupled with high SR .... for me I have to be very thoughtful in using them.
Pax
mind_messing
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The 94 and J7W seem to work best in tandem. Shinden low and the 94 high. If I had to make a choice, I'd go 94, but simply because Loka has decided that they're that good he needs to shut down the production with 4E strikes on the factories.

/yeah, biggest drawback on the J7W ... low climb rate ... coupled with high SR .... for me I have to be very thoughtful in using them.


I think it's important to compare the J7W relative to the other late-war IJN fighters.

The Zero is pretty much flying VP's at this point, the Sam is fairly decent, but the Jack and George are on their last legs against the newer Allied stuff.

Granted, the J7W and the Shusei rocket fighter both arrive on 12/45, but the J7 uses a common engine, so the R&D bonus should be easy to attain. I also like the stats of the J7W more than the Shusei - the J7 has better armour, durability, service rating and guns than the J8M1.

I think the J7W fills the role of speedy late-war interceptor in the most practical manner.

That said, however, for my new game I am second guessing the value of the rocket planes for the IJN, considering they've the same arrival date...
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

July 15th to July 18th, 1945


North Pacific

Fairly quiet here, bar the occasional sweep over Hokkaido. The air defense network there is performing well. While the Thunderbolt sweeps tend to trade well, I am able to keep air groups up to strength much better than Loka can sweep them down, so, for the moment, it's a stalemate here.

At sea, bombardments of coastal hexes in Hokkaido continue, and IJN 2E torpedo planes continue to try and harass shipping by night, to little avail.

Bonin Islands

In a rare stroke of click fatigue for Loka, he sends a CV too close to the Home Islands, and even forgets to turn CAP on. IJN 2E bombers based at Yokohama sortie en-masse and butcher the task force, sinking CV Antietam and two light crusiers.

The marauding USN CV forces around Iwo Jima withdraw after accomplishing little.

China

Chinese spearheads reach Peiping, and with Canton, Hong Kong and Shanghai all invested, the war here is becoming static. There are still numerous guerrilla IJA units wandering the Chinese hinterlands, but there's not much hope for them being anything more than a minor nuisance.

Manchuria

With over 20k AV in-theatre, I'm hoping for some delay to the rampaging Russian horde. The next few weeks are the final steps to the defence. I'm sending out the smaller picket units to the countryside to block off the railway lines and generallly cause hexside mayhem, while the big divisions are coming out of rest mode and taking up positions.

The next two weeks will be rotating troops around to provide as good coverage as possible, while I go through divisional commanders and see who needs replaced.

Even so, I'm still debating the value of loading everyone up and running to the middle of Korea, but with Loka already having AV, the primary concern (denial of Army VP's) isn't really there, so we'll just see how it goes.

Home Islands

Tokyo struck my massive blast. Reports to follow...



Morning Air attack on Tokyo , at 114,60

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 68 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 14
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 7
Ki-84r Frank x 29

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 1

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 1 damaged

ATOMIC BOMB hits 1
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PaxMondo
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by PaxMondo »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

The 94 and J7W seem to work best in tandem. Shinden low and the 94 high. If I had to make a choice, I'd go 94, but simply because Loka has decided that they're that good he needs to shut down the production with 4E strikes on the factories.

/yeah, biggest drawback on the J7W ... low climb rate ... coupled with high SR .... for me I have to be very thoughtful in using them.


I think it's important to compare the J7W relative to the other late-war IJN fighters.

The Zero is pretty much flying VP's at this point, the Sam is fairly decent, but the Jack and George are on their last legs against the newer Allied stuff.

Granted, the J7W and the Shusei rocket fighter both arrive on 12/45, but the J7 uses a common engine, so the R&D bonus should be easy to attain. I also like the stats of the J7W more than the Shusei - the J7 has better armour, durability, service rating and guns than the J8M1.

I think the J7W fills the role of speedy late-war interceptor in the most practical manner.

That said, however, for my new game I am second guessing the value of the rocket planes for the IJN, considering they've the same arrival date...
Agree with all of that ... just pointing out its one real deficit.
As you note, the Shusei takes a unique engine
Pax
mind_messing
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo



/yeah, biggest drawback on the J7W ... low climb rate ... coupled with high SR .... for me I have to be very thoughtful in using them.


I think it's important to compare the J7W relative to the other late-war IJN fighters.

The Zero is pretty much flying VP's at this point, the Sam is fairly decent, but the Jack and George are on their last legs against the newer Allied stuff.

Granted, the J7W and the Shusei rocket fighter both arrive on 12/45, but the J7 uses a common engine, so the R&D bonus should be easy to attain. I also like the stats of the J7W more than the Shusei - the J7 has better armour, durability, service rating and guns than the J8M1.

I think the J7W fills the role of speedy late-war interceptor in the most practical manner.

That said, however, for my new game I am second guessing the value of the rocket planes for the IJN, considering they've the same arrival date...
Agree with all of that ... just pointing out its one real deficit.
As you note, the Shusei takes a unique engine

Between you and Lowpe, you've got me doubting my choices with the J7 and J8. Thankfully no industry decisions have been made yet, bar naval production, so it's not set in stone yet.
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PaxMondo
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by PaxMondo »

If you are seriously considering the J8, you need to sandbox it in a late game scenario. Range of 1, max range 2, DUR=8, and SR4 are serious things to consider. I have found it quite challenging to use. Granted 4 minutes to B29 altitude means it will almost always be able to intercept, but only 2x30mm @ 15% accuracy ... challenging.

The J7W also has significant challenges, but I have found it far easier for me to use effectively.
Pax
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RE: The Chinese Are Coming!

Post by mind_messing »

Status update:

Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. Currently real life has taken priority over AE, but the next few weeks offer some breathing space for me.

The current game date is August 1st, 1945, so I've a little back filling to do regarding updates. I've still to flip this turn to Loka, so I should get an update in before firing the turn back.
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