Project, "silver" (scarce) scenario update for stock scen2

[Alpha77]

DOWLOAD LINK for version without navy changes: POST 5 [:)]


This is a project, mainly for myself, but will provide the scen for others to download later....

Disclaimer
(as IF, no guarantee, no support, Matrix, devs, myself are not responsible for damage of time or frustration of yours if you use this scen [:'(])

It is said silver is quite scarce, if this is really true I cannot say, but I bought some a while ago (if you want to, only PHYSICAL in your own possession not at the bank or as paper!), so I name the scen "silver".
Sources and first reads:

1.
tm.asp?m=4160597

(Radar and other problems will be fixed, but are mostly already in the "updated" version by Andy. However a review revealed other more serious problems eg. with At, As values of most tanks and some guns, try to fix it or find a compromise between the stock too high values and playable but perhaps too radical lower values of the Andy scen)

2.
The US logistical problem (reality vs game):
tm.asp?m=4262573

3.
Improvement suggestion for patch or update: make stuff more "worthwile" and more "scarce"
tm.asp?m=4259526

4. Some planes will be re-modelled, some engines, some industry, refeneries no suppy prod, but some small LI added and more. Some planes, ships and units will go, some will be combined, no will be added, the new stuff will only be changed in already EXISTING units/ships/devices, not more time or effort than stock, perhaps less time to play is needed compared to especially the mods that add so much stuff and bases and new maps etc. NOT in this one, NO starwars ships, no 1944 CV in 1942 [:-] or Kriegsmarine in pacific [8|]

5. Play as PBM or H2H, AI depends - see below. Not much added, no MAJOR ships/ or combat units will go away. However you get LESS air, nav, support, engs, supply, fuel, AK,AKL,TK types....it would be better an AI play if you take the Allies - as they will suffer more from restriction (esp. in early war!). IJ suffers less from Allied most feared weapon in 42 (4E,depending on Allied use). IJ might suffer more from reduced engs and bit stronger Dutch,Chinese air for example.

5.a)
... still US will have enough fuel and supply. But perhaps it may actually hurt a bit if 5 AKLs loaded with supply are sunk (in stock you care not much, cause you have zillions of sup and hundreds of transports)
5.b)
...will do nothing to the AI, you can use the "stock" one which comes with this silver scen already or perhaps wait for a better one if an easy download source is provided by someone (I am NOT an AI or navy guy, I am land+air mostly).

6. Added, a link were the tank value problems I found are detailed:

tm.asp?m=4262848


Only some first info, if time allows will be updated.

This can not be compared with other mods which require a seperate folder (you just unzip this in the scen folder and are done!) and rework stuff much more and even add stuff that worsens the issues described above. And is not intended to be any rival for any mod, they all have their strengths and can be recommended.


Added silver coin (eye candy):

[Alpha77]

Here a bit of story from an IJ plane company:

The Helen bomber 1 was ok, pilots said however they did not like it had not much better stats then their old Sally, in fact the Sally flew better and ground crews were experienced with it. So the air ministry said in 41 we wanna now have some planes which are really improved to the earlier model. Not the Sonia, not the Helen, not the VAL achived it tho. So this was streamlined more, some planned models were said to be ok, but worth to produce??

They looked to Germany and found they would make so many different planes and had a better fighter now called FW190 but still kept the older 109 (it was said, Messerschmidt was friend or "associate" with Nazi bosses. Might be a rumour. BUT they had mainly only 2 lines of engines for early to mid war fighters, and same for most important bombers. IJ had more different engines, also older ones kept in production. No big deal old models the chief can stop or build older planes which perhaps might be useful for secondary duties. It was found that in the future modells (one a big 2E heavy fighter to combat the gen´s prediction of heavy bombers) we use the same engine. Stats will go down, cause the orig planned engine was better suited. BUT, the production of 2 engine modells could be stopped at all for a little price of worse performance.


They had the Nate and Oscar, pilots liked them. But gen. Immuraha not, he predicted that the US will have huge bombers and fighters that can fly 1000s of km like the Zero but are faster and more stable. He got laughed at the conference. LOL the imperialists can not do that they do not have our resolve and national will. But the chief took him aside after that and said, what are your ideas friend?`He said lets start with the latest disaster Ki49 bomber. Not really imporved and crews did notlike it. What do we care what the lowly crews mean ? Well, san, the crews fight and repair planes, if they have better planes they fight better and if they have confidence in the plane too....they did not in the Ki49 case. His suggestion was, ok, lets try to build a IIa version which has improved stats, even if pilots do not like it they combat will improve if it has better range and stability than Sally.

They built this modell, but...

Actually IIb was scrapped I was informed, it however served as basis for the later major model the Helen IIc KAI engineers said, IIb model had not enough improvement to build it in a large series, so it served only as testing plane and some in training units. The KAI however was delayed, only the chief of war economy can perhaps accelerate the arrival with effort in research. He might try, but he will have to compete with fighter builds that are even more important...one of them the Oscar IIa (KAI) was delayed but also improved in speed mostly...then the IIb with more speed and actual simmilar pilot protection then some Allied planes and sealed fuel tanks....still weapons and dur was pretty average...san, this airframe is too light and nimble it can not reach the Allied fighters in weapons and dur and protection. This is clear. Another haevier frame later called KI84 was suggested, engine troubles developed...they had to go back to Oscar to have flying fighters at all. They cut the range and the bombs the earlier model can carry, a last cheap Volksjäger "OscarV" was suggested when US bombers trashed the Truk base.

Stalin said, quantity has a quality on it own, but in their case they also had quality with T34 and good arty pieces. Oscar ? Not so much qualitly like Russian stuff but can be produced in masses, easy to fly, no need to fly high, it should catch the Allied strafing bombers and the feared Russian IL2 which fly low. San, if the Russians attack us...I fear, we can not stop them. We may try.


Immuraha !!! The modell KI49IIc does NOT look to be much better, you broke your promise. Pilots say it is too heavy and has a low climb. *sigh* San, yes, but we can not do wonder here at the air departement. If it has bigger bombs and 2 more smaller ones than IIa we needed better engines to make it faster. This would delay to 1944 or so. It also has now 12,7mm MGs the earlier light MGs did not much to stable enemy fighters. Ah ok, more and bigger guns, this I like. So lets try it, but only cause I like your shirt. *sigh* San, the bigger bombs can be used against enemy cruisers for example too...San, San ?? But he was already gone and Immuraha sighed a 3rd time...


Same was true with 4-5 other models.


---
On the other side, their was a rumour too the madman Hitler would declare war on the US - laughable, but if he really is mad ? No one is so mad.. who knows ? Well Sam, I do not believe it, we do NOT need to make preparations in this case, the British and Russians can get materials from us, yes. Our stockpiles will serve the economy more - cars the Americans love cars. Lets assign of the planned war preparation to civilian cars and make Americans more happy. Sir, if we need to go to war, we might have less supplies, oil and fuel and perhaps less of these new big bombers too ! We will got to war in 1943, John. Patton has the plan, he lands at the German coast near Wilhelmshaven then, British provide bombers and some of their fighters, we march to directly to Berlin then. If Hitler is really mad we will find out then. Sir, whow, this is.... breathtaking... Patton is a genius. What about the Japanese ? Nothing, John, we cut their oil and scrap metals, they can do not much and are stuck in China. Sir, this is true... how was the golfing with maddam btw last sunday....John, great, nice weather blablabla


----


Immuraha was dissapointed himself, but did not admit it, the plane needed longer time to develope, is indeed heavier and lousy climb. Makes it a difference ? He does not know, but he knows 12,7mm MGs and a bit better dur would perhaps make it more survivable and the 2 bigger bombs cause more damage. He hoped at least, but found the plane looks almost the same like the one only build as prototypes (IIb).. strange he thought.....mechanics had trouble with the electric system, causing longer maintenance compared to Sally or IIa. He admitted the time had not come for wonder planes, or it never will come. He hoped his Volksjäger will look better at least on paper.

But at least they remembered to rename the Ki49 "kai" which was in fact a transport, making sure it was recognized as transport. So the label IIc "kai" of the bomber would not confuse too many...[;)]

[Alpha77]

Change log (so far, up to 29.04.17), will edit this post only when new changes are made.This is alreay playable no question, you can get a version in 2 weeks or so. We only need a better AI if you can/want not play PBM. Like I noted my partner dropped out of the game and now I find no new player so far.

--> So vs. the AI for sure is a "safer" option if you wanna also play to 44 or even the endgame.

--> PDU off not recommended anymore, as for some plane changes (esp. US bomber sqdr now more 2Es etc), better "on"

ECO and AI both

- Reduced daily sup/fu rates for OFF MAP: eg. east USA, UK, Abadan....NOTE: No one will starve there, you get still enough to not care. But not the huge mountains of stuff anymore(hopefully - depends on your useage and losses ofc), needs to be seen if it has an effect.

- Some of the convois now bring in less sup/fu (in 42+43 only, 44 and later no change)

- 2 major industries in 2 major cities on the WC now are in part "damaged" you can easily build them up ("repair") to the old "stock" value (SanFra, LA) but this will take time, so in early - mid 42 lower rates. Also one industry in Sidney.

- Ref - no supply. Small LIs added to make up for this a bit (not fully!) eg. Palembang, Balik, Burma.. so also early Allies do not starve. You can supply small troop numbers still but not huge armies you need to bring in more sup now then in "stock"

- 2 very small oil fields added in the Manchuko area, simulates what was probably there (a bit oil more production) these are mini fields 10 or so.

- Latest scen2 AI added, if you note something to improve it report to these threads:
tm.asp?m=4257473
tm.asp?m=4037697


AIR OOB IJ

- If you play IJ make sure to first look in the eng window and sort for eng. 2 or 3 engs are gone and 3-4 IJ planes now use different engines! Eg. Kawasaki eng is gone, Mary uses another old one and also got a HMG to make it perhaps worthy to build (like other "lowly" planes too). This everyone easily can see for himself in the game databases and should be the 1st place to go if you start.

- Some older (or in game "useless") planes are gone, eg. Oscar 1a or a very short range transport no one used anyway. The at start O1a or Transport units got other planes (eg. Sally transport and O1b). Or also the TojoX (prototype) is gone, the single unit that used it got 1A version. Later arriving TP ("Hickory") now better range, it was useless before (or should we delete it totally - suggest also others that could go, only if not many units use it, just post the model and units in question you wanna see go and we see), Dave gone, 1 Mavis TR gone, 1 Topsy TR gone (not much different to 2nd model)

- Tojo uses HA34 eng, not 35. Rufe can not be upgraded to M5 Zero anymore (why it was that way at all I do not know), so bit slower research of Zero line

- IJ TP planes now added "Tra" to name, easier to identify and not confuse with bomber the same name anymore

- Changed some plane slots, for these: Helen IIc KAI, SallyIIc 4E, Oscar V "Volksjäger", Ida late war AT with 2 x ex German 20mm guns, Sonia CAS variant...also you get now a bit better speed for some fighters, also 1 Judy and 1 Jill variant now named KAI with 1x HMG instead only LMG, just check it out.


AIR OOB ALLIES

- Dutch, some air units now stronger and better, they got even a "elite" bomber unit (for early war they look now elite at least LOL). And a better transport and recon unit (with useful range now the old one was useless for the Dutch). Otherwise no change planned, but suggest something
- Phillipines, are somewhat stronger in the air now
- 4E bombers repl reduced (production however is NOT touched at all for any plane),B17F are gone,the few ones in stock were send to Scotland to bomb German stuff and accidently a Swedish brewery (no one hurt or died luckily)
- More 2E bombers repl rates and a new "Bolo" model to make up some 4E losses, if you use your 4E careless now you might have to downgrade to older 2Es even. Also some more Banshees repl
- Tweaked fgtr repl rates a bit (no models changed) P26 obsolete fgr gone, the 2 units have got others
- Tweaked very slight some 4E ranges ("harmonized")
- CHI, somewhat better air and some small units combined
- RUS, repl tweaked otherwise no change planned, but suggest something
- SBD1 lot now SBD2 (e) - recon,scout bomber, B10 slot now B18 Bolo(i), also Indians get a close suppport version of some older training plane

GROUND OOB ALLIES

- Dutch, now somewhat stronger in some ground units that only had squads were upgraded to a "Landstorm regiment" and got some AA MGs, mortars and guns. Some 10-20 points higher mor/exp. Some baseforce more AA+some mortars etc.
otherwise no change planned, but suggest something
- Phillipines (? later) suggest something
- Brit/India/Malaya, a bit at atart stronger units (some more guns etc.) 2-3 better mor/exp
otherwise no change planned, but suggest something
- Repl rates of above slightly tweaked, older india/burma sqds now more and bit longer
- Repl rates of engs, air + nav support reduced
- Some eng type units are gone (42 mostly - might help to not build huge bases so early)
- CHI, some of these small HQ units gone (clutter map, eat sup), small number of engs gone, slight tweak to inf repl - - some CHI units are assumed to be "German" trained and get much better stats a "tr" added to units name for these, they also get a bit more art, some CHI units got ACs and light tanks (eg. T26 for the red, M2, scout cars for the other, in cavalry units)
- RUS, repl tweaked -otherwise no change planned, but suggest something
- Most tank values tweaked

GROUND OOB IJ
- Some eng type units are gone (42 mostly - might help to not build huge bases so early)
- Some small units deleted or combined
- Most tank values tweaked
- Deleted or combined some of the scen2 units, it seemed they were too much

SEA OOB IJ
- Super Es twekaed, have no 2 less DC throwers and less ammo
- 10cm AA gun tweaked, had too weak stats, now hopefully better and Akitsuki class more useful as AA ships

SEA OOB ALLIES
- some DP gun values tweaked, most important the late war 5inch gun was NOT set to DP, fixed!

NOTE for AI players: I decided to stop any changes to NAVY for both sides for AI play, as I do not know HOW THIS WOULD IMPACT the AI moves, TF creation and scripts. I may delete also only some ARRIVING ships not aleady on map.

What you should do if you play IJ vs. AI: Level hard or vhard and give Allies some sup/fu/4E replacements back. Also restore perhaps the ind at SanFra,LA, Sidney to 100% (no damage). This takes only 10 min or so in the editor.

If Allied vs. AI, restore the Rufe upgrade to M5, not sure how AI handles research with other settings. Give em also some more engineers again. And perhaps bit sup/fu storage more.

These hints are only guidelines, you can decide yourself ofc and play also vs. AI with all the changes. But at least level hard and PDU on.

[Alpha77]

NOTE for AI players: I decided to stop any changes to NAVY for both sides for AI play, as I do not know HOW THIS WOULD IMPACT the AI moves, TF creation and scripts. I may delete also only some ARRIVING ships not aleady on map.

What you should do if you play IJ vs. AI: Level hard or vhard and give Allies some sup/fu/4E replacements back. Also restore perhaps the ind at SanFra,LA, Sidney to 100% (no damage). This takes only 10 min or so in the editor.

If Allied vs. AI, restore the Rufe upgrade to M5, not sure how AI handles research with other settings. Give em also some more engineers again. And perhaps bit sup/fu storage more.

These hints are only guidelines, you can decide yourself ofc and play also vs. AI with all the changes. But at least level hard and PDU on.


Screen1 - change ind at sanfran back to stock, navigate to ind tab, put back in "0" (zero) for damage - done

[Alpha77]

Screen2 example how to - change Rufe back to stock, navigate to planes tab,then to M6 Rufe, put back Zero M5 instead Rex - done
The other locations accordingly (LA,Sydney plus up the 4E replacements by 20-50% (your taste and choice) - mostly only the US ones are required, but do not change PRODUCTION value, these were not touched at all means if "replacement rate is "0" zero do not touch, these planes are produced in cities on map). Save the scen, with overwrite "yes". Check in game change was ok, play and have fun.

NOTE that the editor changes are not REQUIRED at all, but may help the AI.

Will upload the scen without or only slight navy changes soon, the one with more severe changes later...
... and YEAH I know almost no one is interest in a scen were there is LESS stuff and it is not so easy perhaps to have maxed bases in most of the pacific in 42. This is anyway mostly for myself. Also you can use the editor to create for example a super sub with laser weapons if you like it to have in WW2. [:D]

[Alpha77]

Here the version without naval changes (only the few devices above but no ships added, changed or deleted):

Was tested ca. 30 turns on H2H and worked, no errors or crashes. (UPDATE: Some tests revealed stuff is not really scarce after tests, also the damaged industry was added to the cities not substracted. This would need more testing with 3-4 players I guess, you will still develope no fuel or supply problems I suspect)

- Unzip into your scen folder

- If you have already a scen27 that you want to keep: Create folder,unzip into new folder and rename all scen27 to the number you want, copy from the new folder to scen folder

- Play H2H or PBM, use at least hard and PDU on for AI play, if you want to help Allied AI a bit more say "yes" to reliable torpodoes (non historic option)


Will now change/delete some ships and play it myself....will upload the plus naval changes version also, but not sure if suited for AI play for reasons detailed above.


EDIT: Upload a last version later for people to improve if they want. I have real life issues to deal with [:(]

[Alpha77]

Cont´d sea OOB changes (incl. only in 2nd dowload coming in some days)


->Decided to not tweak ranges and capacity of transport, too much work, instead delete a bunch from both sides

SEA OOB IJ
- 2 late war CVE gone, the 2 others therefore more planes
- some late war mini ships/SCs/AKLs etc gone
- 2 Sunosaki AO gone (too low cap), therefore 2 others get some more fuel cap (Ashizuri)
- gone: 2 DDs, 1 Agano, some late war small SSs+SSTs, dozens of AKLs,xAK,some TK (all in building)
- Yubari might convert later to some "kindof escort"
- 2 of the early CAs (Aoba class) now lose the 12,7cm old guns and gain some 40cm "pom poms", still not the best AA gun, but perhaps better than 25mm. Also gets more armor, loses speed and range.
- Oyodo concept changed from scout, command ship to bit more AA oriented:
2x twin 10cm added at rear sides, some AA MGs added (later upgrade to 25mm), plane & cargo capacity gone, bit slower, bit less range, bit more armor:





SEA OOB ALLIES
- no changes except they get some ships earlier and get 2 more older cruisers 2nd hlf of 42 and a few other smaller asw and mine ships

[Alpha77]

I decided to play/test Silver as the IJ and gave back the Allies some assets (I know contrary to the mission statement [:(], but I do not know how good the AI is so perhaps they need more stuff [;)]), Allies gain 2 old cruisers in 42 and some asw ships and get lots of ships also earlier now. Eg. CVB Midway and Alaska etc. to perhaps see this ships in action if a game finally gets into 44 and longer...will report the game here:

tm.asp?m=4175198

Also no Allied ships gone, as for above reason.

[Alpha77]

Seems to play fine and the AI also works, so here the version I am now playing (excuse me I do not update the silver AAR often, I seriously need to spend less time in the net and playing. Sometimes I neclect the real life it seems [:-])

EDIT: Upload a last version later for people to improve if they want. I have real life issues to deal with

[Alpha77]

Was away from gaming for a while, but started again 2 weeks ago - played allied side with the silver scen and was tweaked a bit more. Seems the AI that is included works ok (I mean at least the naval side is improved as "suicide raids" dont seem to happen now so often like before, but the air and land AI is still only "soso")...will upload the tweaked version later. As reported the land values are a must have as both 2 other versions I know seem a bit off..

.. and please complain AI issues not here, as I just took over the latest from the AI thread.. but you can share views and disagree (with sources and reason) to the unit values I tweaked here for sure [;)]

[Alpha77]

Has anyone downloaded this ? I lost the data on my computer and there seems to be no download link in this thread. If yes, can you reupload it ? [:)]

[Edward75]

I saved your Mod files, but I don’t know which version.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bot-pO ... sp=sharing

[PaxMondo]

Your data on the Helen is not complete. The anecdotal account of aircrew preference is interesting, but I've never been able to track down the original source.

however, notwithstanding that, a real reason that the Helen was not in favor was that the engines used, a variant of the Ha-34 were twin-charged. This would have been a good thing, except that they were not reliable. Not reliable to the point that the aircraft were rarely ever airworthy and when they did fly were then grounded for weeks awaiting parts and repairs primarily to the induction system.

The devs gave the IJ players a huge Easter egg by allowing use, and SR =2, and unlimited production of the Helen because it had been "released" for production officially. The production release is accurate, but it was to hide their inability to actually produce the aircraft. Hence, historically very few were built until sometime around '44.

An accurate modeling of the Helen in game would be an SR=8 or so. Then with the Ki-49b model in '44 drop that to SR=3 or 4. This is why the Sally, outdated as it was in 1941, was produced the entire war. The SR=2 (and it could be argued SR1, the plane was that simple in design) was very reliable albeit grossly underpowered. The Helen had the right power, but the reliability and PARTS for the twin-chargers was always an issue.

Enjoy!

[LargeSlowTarget]

Hey PaxMondo, what is this about the unreliabe "twin-charged" engine for the Helen and an SR = 8?!?

The early Helens - and the early Tojos - used the Ha-41 variant of what was later designated the Ha-34 engine, and then switched to the Ha-34/Ha-109 variant for the Helen II and Tojo II.

The Ha-109 is considered the best engine Nakajima has produced during the war!

The Ha-35 Sakae and variants Ha-105/Ha-115 was too weak, the Ha-45 Homare was unreliable due to quality problems with parts - fine tolerances required - and the Ha-36 Mamoru even more so, and the others Nakajima projects like the Ha-44/Ha-219 and the Ha-117 also had problems and came too late anyway.

The Ha-34/Ha-109 was NOT twin-charged - i.e. a supercharger and a turbosupercharger - but had a a two-speed, single stage supercharger.

AFAIK the Japanese had problems developping and producing turbosuperchargers, but did ok for superchargers.

If you have more info about that alleged reliability problem of the Helen, I'm a taker.

[Alpha77]

ORIGINAL: Edward75

I saved your Mod files, but I don’t know which version.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bot-pO ... sp=sharing

Hi Edward, thanks for this..

I do not play the game or am in the forum at the moment, but will gladly download it. Sorry for late reply.

Thanks! [:)]

[AtParmentier]

Don't see a download link, would like to take a look at it.

[btd64]

Look at the 1st post....GP

[AtParmentier]

Still don't see a downloadlink that works.

[Alpha77]

Still don't see a downloadlink that works.

Only the Edward75 Link could be still valid, I ended this scenario project.
But the version he has can be used to put you won ideas in for example...