2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

[brian brian]

My point is - this could be true of any single country Free France selected as a new Home Country, including, say, Algeria.

(But irrelevant for an Incompletely Conquered France when Metropolitan France is conquered - it would eventually co-operate with the USA but never with the CW. Incompletely conquered France is not the same thing as Free France)

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

Yes, as per:

Each home country or territory aligned with Vichy France becomes conquered by any Axis major power that has a land unit in it. Other home countries and territories aligned with Vichy France align with Free France (or become Free France with a new home country if it is currently completely conquered).

Senegal would be FF so they can cooperate then, as per:

7. Commonwealth and Free French units co-operate.

This is no longer correct. Asked and answered in the 2009 FAQ:

Q13.7-4: A Conquered MP may move their Home Country to an aligned minor. Do the units of that minor become major power units (for reorg, cooperation, etc.)?
A: No Date 28/12/2007

So no the Algerians should not be allowed to stack with the London MIL. The unit with the London MIL in the game save above is a FF ship.

If MWiF had thought the Algerian Territorial was a FF unit then MWiF should have allowed placing the unit in Algiers.

Now interestingly, the Relations form in the game is showing Senegal as "Aligned (Units)" under France. So I suspect Senegal is the FF home country and MWiF is not programmed for the FAQ ruling above and considers Senegalese units to be FF along with any French units FF held onto and any French or Senegalese units that FF builds.

The unit that did successfully stack with the London MIL was the Algerian MIL which is a City Based Volunteer. The RAW says CBVs are minor country units if the country is aligned with the major power and major power units if the country is conquered. With Algeria having been Vichy perhaps MWiF is confused on this issue.

[paulderynck]

The MWiF RAC says "Clarification: The Free French city based volunteers are available to Free France if it exists. If Free France does not exist (for any reason) but France itself exists after having been completely or incompletely conquered, then these CBV units are available to France."

So perhaps MWiF thinks all CBVs are major power units, although that was not the ultimate ruling from ADG. That clarification was only meant to ensure that some Allied French entity would get those units during the game. The Players Manual does say that the implementation of the CBV rule is partially incomplete.

So in summary I think we have three possible bugs:
1. The most important IMO is that Off City Reinforcement didn't function when it should have.
2. Non-implementation of the FAQ ruling on Q13.7-4. Personally I prefer it this way, never liked that answer!
3. CBVs treated as major power units. This has long been a bone of contention on the forums and again, personally I lean towards them being so.

[Courtenay]

There is a fourth bug: to the best of my knowledge, the city-based volunteer rule has not yet been implemented in MWiF, so how can a CBV unit show up?

[paulderynck]

"Partially complete" is what the manual says. The units are in the game as stated in the Players Manual - units from Mech in Flames and Politics in Flames (happiness to the Guderian lovers) - are included.

Actually reviewing Post #1 it is talking about the Algiers MIL, which is the CBV, so then number 2 and 3 above may not be bugs.

I am wondering which Algerian was there and stackable as mentioned in Post #15??

[Majorball68]

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

"Partially complete" is what the manual says. The units are in the game as stated in the Players Manual - units from Mech in Flames and Politics in Flames (happiness to the Guderian lovers) - are included.

Actually reviewing Post #1 it is talking about the Algiers MIL, which is the CBV, so then number 2 and 3 above may not be bugs.

I am wondering which Algerian was there and stackable as mentioned in Post #15??

The Algerian Militia. Then I moved the London Militia out and then the territorial moved in.

[paulderynck]

That would all fit with the conclusions in Post #23 except for the fact you couldn't place the Algerian MIL there in the first place. [:(]

[Joseignacio]

Paul, I am sure you found it somewhere in the rules but I made a search in the rules for CBV and found nothing and then by "volunteers" and found 5 references, the few relevant being in this pararagraphs, and I don't find the mention to MajorPower/MinorCountry consideration:

The unit that did successfully stack with the London MIL was the Algerian MIL which is a City Based Volunteer. The RAW says CBVs are minor country units if the country is aligned with the major power and major power units if the country is conquered. With Algeria having been Vichy perhaps MWiF is confused on this issue.

22.4.8 City based volunteers (AfA, AiF, LiF& PoliF option 67)
There are several units with the name of a city printed on their back in Africa Aflame, America in Flames, Leaders in Flames and Politics in Flames. These counters represent volunteers who fought or potentially would have fought for the major power whose background colour the counters share. As examples, Vlassov was a successful Soviet general who defected to the Germans after his capture, the SS recruited personnel from the occupied areas and Japan used some Chinese and potentially would have used some Indians or Siberians as well.

These units become available to the respective major power when their home city is controlled by it. During any production step while this city is controlled, that major power may place that unit onto the production circle as if built that turn. They are free the first time they are purchased and do not count for gearing limits. They arrive as reinforcements in their home city.

City based volunteers that arrive in cities in an aligned minor country, are units of that minor county. All other volunteers are major power units.

If they are killed, they are returned to the controlling major power's force pool and may be built again later, but you have to pay and gear for them normally from their second build onwards.

When their city is occupied or conquered by an enemy major power they are removed from the game if in the force pool or on the production circle at that time. If on the map they remain under control of their controlling major power until destroyed. Note that as their home cities may be controlled, lost and then re-controlled during the game, these units can enter and leave the game several times. They are free only once nonetheless.

The Slovak MIL is a city based volunteer based in Bratislava.

At the start of a campaign, it is assumed that none of the units have been brought into the game yet (e.g. the Austrian SS unit can be purchased free the first time it is built in any campaign).

BTW... they are free the first time they are purchased ...? @ home we got free those which were reserves as well, obviously, but not all CBVs... [:@]

[paulderynck]

CBV is WiF slang for City Based Volunteers. You know... like an acronym.

The part I referred to about whether they are major or minor power units is exactly the first sentence you bolded. So that is the mention you need to refer to.

Them being free the first time is, I believe, the part of the rule that is yet to be implemented in MWiF.

[Joseignacio]

I know, that's why I made the search for "CBV" and then also for "Volunteers", a very specific term in WIF which had few entries, so it was difficult that i missed a related rule.

For me, this sentence

The RAW says CBVs are minor country units if the country is aligned with the major power and major power units if the country is conquered.

does not mean the same as this other

City based volunteers that arrive in cities in an aligned minor country, are units of that minor county. All other volunteers are major power units.

but anyway, ..., I think by conquered country you make reference to a Major Power which is conquered and one of the minor countries become Major Power (in exile), that way it makes sense to me. Ok. [:)]

So, that CBV are free the first time is still to be implemented, but ... what do you people do? Is this enforced in regular board games? Because I didn't know this rule and we never did, I was wondering if I misunderstood something and there was a reason why it shouldn't be used, like it's an optional or something, but it is inside or part of the CBV optional so if you have them (and everybody does in the games I see or play) then you have to have them free the first time I believe.

Maybe people don't do because it's one more complication to track every militia to see if they are built for the first time or else. In our games, we got the conquered countries militias for free, however.

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

For me, this sentence

The RAW says CBVs are minor country units if the country is aligned with the major power and major power units if the country is conquered.

does not mean the same as this other

City based volunteers that arrive in cities in an aligned minor country, are units of that minor county. All other volunteers are major power units.

When we speak of a city in a country that you control, then how is it that you control the city? Either the country is aligned with you or you control the hex by taking it and/or conquering the country. That is how the quote and the rule mean the same thing. Some examples: the Slovakian Mil is a minor country unit because Czechoslovakia starts aligned with Germany. The German Kiev Mil (Ost SS) is a major power unit.

Probably the best example in the game is the Zagreb MIL.

Germany conquers Yugoslavia - it appears and is a major power (German) unit.
Germany aligns Yugoslavia - it appears and is a minor power (Yugoslav) unit.
Italy conquers or aligns Yugoslavia - it doesn't appear.

In MWiF you can only build the units when they enter your force pool - the free part doesn't work yet, but the units are in the game. FREX the Slovakian MIL starts as "Removed". I'm not sure if MWiF actually ever puts the unit in the German Force Pool. But clearly from the foregoing the Algiers MIL does enter an MWiF game, but needs to be built.

Over the board, myself and all the opponents I've ever played have been very careful to always get them free the first time when they are due.