2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

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Majorball68
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2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Majorball68 »

Situation is Algeria is French after Axis have collapsed Vichy in a previous turn. I built a Militia with the Free French and drew the Algiers Militia. At the French placement stage it is telling me there is no place for it to arrive when the Free French own Algiers.
This is a PBEM game and it would be appreciated if someone could amend the file so we can continue. The save is just prior to Free French placement. Many thanks.
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Majorball68
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Majorball68 »

Too hard basket?
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BrianJH
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by BrianJH »

Actually I don't think there is a problem here. Algeria is aligned to the Free French, and according to Rule 18.1 (point 4) "Units from a major power don't co-operate with units from a minor country aligned with another major power.", the only viable 'City' hex has a Commonwealth unit it. As the Algerian militia doesn't co-operate with the CW, it can't stack there. So I think the program is correct.

Brian.


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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by BrianJH »

Wait, what about Off-city reinforcements, should that apply here?

Brian.
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Courtenay
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Courtenay »

Yes, off-city reinforcements should apply, if that optional rule is being used. If it isn't, it obviously doesn't.

In my opinion, off-city reinforcements is the second most player friendly optional rule, after fractional odds.
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Jagdtiger14 »

We are playing with Off City Reinforcements. There are three hexes free of enemy ZOC.
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
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Centuur
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Centuur »

I've put the MIL on the map, adjacent to Algiers:

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Majorball68
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Majorball68 »

ORIGINAL: Centuur

I've put the MIL on the map, adjacent to Algiers:


Thank you, very much appreciated :)
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Jagdtiger14 »

Thank you Centuur!
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Joseignacio »

ORIGINAL: BrianJH

Actually I don't think there is a problem here. Algeria is aligned to the Free French, and according to Rule 18.1 (point 4) "Units from a major power don't co-operate with units from a minor country aligned with another major power.", the only viable 'City' hex has a Commonwealth unit it. As the Algerian militia doesn't co-operate with the CW, it can't stack there. So I think the program is correct.

Brian.



Maybe I am missing something but I don't get your point. Algeria is aligned to Free France, so why cannot an Algerian unit cooperate with it's aligned Major Power (Free France) and instead need to be deployed or align with CW instead? [&:]

Vichy French collapse
If an Axis unit enters any hex in Metropolitan Vichy France before an Allied unit does, Vichy France collapses.
If Vichy France collapses, it ceases to exist as a major power. All of Metropolitan Vichy France is now conquered by the Axis major power that installed the Vichy government (see 13.7.1).
Each home country or territory aligned with Vichy France becomes conquered by any Axis major power that has a land unit in it. Other home countries and territories aligned with Vichy France align with Free France (or become Free France with a new home country if it is currently completely conquered).
Move all Vichy land and aircraft units in Metropolitan Vichy France to the Free French force pools. All other Vichy land and aircraft units are now Free French.
All Vichy naval units on the production circle, construction pool and repair pool become controlled by the Axis major power that caused the collapse.
All on map Vichy naval units are now Free French. Treat each of them in a home country or territory now controlled by an Axis major power as if it had been surprised when overrun (see 11.11.6).
If an Allied unit enters Metropolitan Vichy France before it has collapsed:
ï Axis units can enter Metropolitan Vichy France without causing a collapse; and
ï Vichy units no longer test their loyalty prior to land combat resolution (see 17.5).
17.6 Running Free France
All Free French home countries, units and French partisans, are controlled by the Free French player. Until France is liberated (see 13.7.5), Free French action limits are half those of France. Its basic production multiple is the same as France’s.
Free French units co-operate with the Commonwealth, and with the US after the US is at war with Germany and Italy.
17. Vichy France
(...)
Free France is an alternative government also established at this time. Free France is considered an incompletely conquered major power from now on unless otherwise specified. It is run by the French player. Free France starts at war with all countries France was at war with, and at peace with all others (including Vichy France).
French territories and minor countries already conquered by the Axis remain conquered by them.
All other French territories and minor countries may be aligned with either Vichy France or Free France.
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by BrianJH »

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
ORIGINAL: BrianJH

Actually I don't think there is a problem here. Algeria is aligned to the Free French, and according to Rule 18.1 (point 4) "Units from a major power don't co-operate with units from a minor country aligned with another major power.", the only viable 'City' hex has a Commonwealth unit it. As the Algerian militia doesn't co-operate with the CW, it can't stack there. So I think the program is correct.

Brian.



Maybe I am missing something but I don't get your point. Algeria is aligned to Free France, so why cannot an Algerian unit cooperate with it's aligned Major Power (Free France) and instead need to be deployed or align with CW instead? [&:]


NO, I'm not saying Algeria needs to be aligned to CW to deploy. The only city in Algeria where Algerian reinforcements can go is in Algiers (it is in fact the only city in Algeria). Because Algeria IS aligned to Free French, and by rule 18.1 point 4, Algeria does not co-operate with the CW, so your Algerian reinforcement cannot stack in Algiers as you have a CW unit located there. You should have been able to deploy the unit due to the fact you had off city reinforcements enabled. You couldn't however stack that unit in Algiers because Algerian units don't co-operate with the CW, and Units that don't co-operate cant stack together.

It appears the program is not honoring your off city reinforcements option, hence it is denying deployment for the above reasons.


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Joseignacio
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Joseignacio »

Ok, thanks. Since I am at my workplace, couldn't see the .GAM file so I didn't know there were CW units in Argel. Also I read your post too fast and I thought you meant something else...
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BrianJH
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by BrianJH »


No problems, being located down under it was getting late when I posted that, perhaps I could have worded it better, I probably rushed it being so late as it was. It is also in part why I overlooked the possibility that you may have had the off city reinforcements option enabled.

At least things are clear now. [:)]

Brian.
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Joseignacio »

You could have worded it otherwise but anyway you were correct; since at work I use to check this and other websites (like mail, bank, etc..) when I have 5 minutes free, I use to read too fast. Instead of understanding that there was an only hex in Algeria theoretically available but not in the practice because there were CW units, I somehow understood that you meant that for some reason these units only viable hex for deployment was a CW city hex. I was [X(] but it was 100% my fault.[:(]
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Majorball68
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Majorball68 »

Well I don't know about the No Cooperation between CW and Algeria. I was able to move 1 of the Algerians into the hex with the CW London Militia.
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BrianJH
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by BrianJH »


Personally, I don't think that should be allowed. Clearly as per the screen shot I posted earlier CW and Algeria do not cooperate, so should not be allowed to stack together.

What say the rule experts out there?

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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Joseignacio »

18.1 Who can co-operate
1. Units from the same major power co-operate with each other (even if they are from different countries - e.g. Australian and Indian units).
2. Units from the same minor country co-operate with each other.
3. Units from a minor country co-operate with units from its controlling major power or minor country.
4. Units from a major power don’t co-operate with units from a minor country aligned with another major power.
5. Units from one minor country don’t co-operate with units from another minor country, even if both are aligned with the same major power.
6. US and Commonwealth units co-operate provided neither is neutral.
7. Commonwealth and Free French units co-operate.
8. US and (non-Vichy) French units co-operate once the USA is at war with Germany and Italy.
9. German and Italian units co-operate if neither is neutral.
10. Vichy French units do not co-operate with any major power.
11. Units controlled by a neutral major power don’t co-operate with units from, or controlled by, another major power.
12. Units from a liberated major power co-operate with units from the major power that liberated it.
13. Chinese nationalist and communist units don’t co-operate.
14. Partisans co-operate with units from their own country only. Chinese partisans only co-operate with Chinese communist units.
No other units co-operate. As an exception to the above, units of a liberated major power never co-operate with units of a major power that refused to return territory on liberation (see 13.7.5).
AfA option 10: The Italian AOI territorial can co-operate with all other Italian territorials (see 22.4.5).

The french Mil ought to be an Algerian unit, just like the TERR, IMO. So it shouldn't have been able to stack with CW units. If it was a Free France unit yes (would apply 7) ), but it seems to me it's an ALG unit so it's a Free France minor (would apply 4) ).
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Centuur
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Centuur »

Number 4 applies here. CW units do cooperate with Free French units, but they don't cooperate with units from Free French minor countries.

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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by brian brian »

When Free France is first set up during the Vichy Phase and selects a new Home Country (or perhaps during an Incomplete Conquest of France), I think units from that country, such as the Senegal MIL, for example, might co-operate with the other Allies?
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Joseignacio
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RE: 2.3.4 Free French Militia Placement Algiers

Post by Joseignacio »

Yes, as per:
Each home country or territory aligned with Vichy France becomes conquered by any Axis major power that has a land unit in it. Other home countries and territories aligned with Vichy France align with Free France (or become Free France with a new home country if it is currently completely conquered).


Senegal would be FF so they can cooperate then, as per:
7. Commonwealth and Free French units co-operate.

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