How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

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KarlXIIc
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How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by KarlXIIc »

Hi all!
How is the A.I in this game after the lastest patch ? Is it good or does it need one year of additional patches before being great ?

Also, how hard is it to get into ?
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freeboy
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by freeboy »

well if you played a board game with hexes and counters its an easy game to get into, challenging AI.. honestly surprisingly so... I highly recommend it as a lite immersive fun game, not too complex and not like the HUGE games.. ala War in the Pacific etc ...
"Tanks forward"
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FF_1079
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by FF_1079 »

I have played two complete 1939 campaigns, one as the Axis ( Germany and Italy under my control ) and one as the Allies ( Great Britain, France and Poland under my control - US and USSR were PC controlled ). The AI is very good at operational exchanges, it manages it's supply, unit upgrades and localized attacks with adequate skill. It has issues with more strategic challenges that run outside of the Decision Event parameters. In other words, "gamey" operations or attacks can sometimes overwhelm it and force it to take too long to respond to.

I won a Major Victory as the Axis in August of 1943. I took Poland and France slightly ahead of schedule, and decided on controlling the Med while attacking the USSR - no Sea Lion. Winning in North Africa is helped greatly by taking Malta and then swinging Spain to your side ( which allows a quick conquer of Gibraltar and then Portugal). Once I had the Afrika Korps moving forward at strength, I sacrificed the Italian navy to destroy the British Med fleet - it worked well, and I still had a few BB's and a sub left over.

The Italian Army went to Russia while the Afrika Korps pushed through to Iraq and eventually the Caucasus after Turkey swung to the Axis. Winning in the USSR, especially the first time taught me the value of managing supply through your headquarters properly. Leningrad and Stalingrad were not especially difficult to take - especially since I was pushing hard in those areas, but the center tends to bog down in front of Moscow because of supply issues. If I had managed my HQ's better it would have been easier I suppose.

Capturing Moscow did not end the game, but destroying the US invasion of France in June/July of 43 did it. Even though I had really hammered the Brit fleet, I was out of position for the attack, thinking they would go into Portugal or Algeria instead. They got 10 units into France - but killing the HQ allowed me to submit them with forces transported operationally from USSR front. It was a fun and satisfying campaign.



As the United Kingdom, Poland and France, the game plays out much differently, it's a stalling game until you start to get aid en masse from the US. By September the AI had conquered France - their morale sinks too quickly to really make the forces useful to defend. I positioned myself early on to take Libya and then Tunisia for an invasion early into Sicily.

As the UK your primary task is to eliminate each and every Italian and German ship, opening up maximum flexibility for your med forces and keeping your supplies flowing in unhindered. Over the course of the game I did just that, and it exposes the one weak point of the AI, it is too easily baited with it's naval forces, the surprise rules SHOULD NOT be used in naval combat - it makes it too lopsided.

I lost both Yugoslavia and Greece to the Axis, but it cost them, they had German forces there pushing the fight instead of on the Eastern front - where they led with all the minor nation troops plus the Italians. Needless to say the Germans could not push through to any objective - they never got closer that 4-5 hexes from any of the 3 main Soviet victory objectives.

Once I had my forces in Libya and Tunisia, I invaded Sicily and then jumped again towards Rome - I could have taken it, but the turn before the Italian morale sunk so low they surrendered. Getting all of Italy except for the few zoc's of the German units was too favorable. I immediately transported or operationally moved my units to secure Northern Italy's borders and isolated the German forces. Germany took over Vichy France and began coming after me from Yugoslavia, Austria and France - the US forces then decided to invade ... Algeria .... Not a smart play with all of Southern France wide open , but at least they were close enough for me to start moving them to Northern Italy manually.

With Germany locked up in Russia, I invaded Norway from England, taking it in two turns, then headed south and took Denmark and moved to the German border. a three pronged invasion took effect - Brits from Italy went up through southern France while the Americans held against the German forces in the Venice area. I jumped Brit and US paratroopers around Paris to link up with the Southern forces and took it. There was a wholesale attempt to move east front forces to the west, but the Soviet army was slow to capitalize on it, only reaching Konigsberg by the games end.

Montgomery pushed down from Denmark behind German forces in western Germany, and took Berlin in December of 43'. The last 4-5 months showed that the AI was having a hard time coping with multiple threat axis assaults, it never prioritized the greatest threat - Monty's Denmark force and only had a Garrison in Berlin for defense - many Heavy tanks, mechanized units and regular armor were still in the low country area and Austria.

I played the game on standard settings, so I am not surprised that I was able to accomplish what I did, my next playthrough as the Axis will be on the recommended settings of higher xp, MPP's and spotting for the AI - I think it will be a much harder challenge to replicate the results of the first two campaigns.
Fondly remembers SSI's "Clash of Steel"
tog34
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by tog34 »

Honestly I find this game easy to play the only thing I'm not fully sure whats going on is supply, Like I get it a little but I'll need more game time with it. Another thing is time is very important, gotta beat Poland and france early enough so they don't stop your invasion of the soviet union. That also goes for Yugoslavia and Greece. This game is easy to pick up and play and I like it a lot. If you've played one of these Hex games before you'll be fine and right at home. If not it'll take a tiny bit of time to get use to.
Ironclad
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by Ironclad »

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gravyface_
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by gravyface_ »

ORIGINAL: FF_1079

I have played two complete 1939 campaigns, one as the Axis ( Germany and Italy under my control ) and one as the Allies ( Great Britain, France and Poland under my control - US and USSR were PC controlled ). The AI is very good at operational exchanges, it manages it's supply, unit upgrades and localized attacks with adequate skill. It has issues with more strategic challenges that run outside of the Decision Event parameters. In other words, "gamey" operations or attacks can sometimes overwhelm it and force it to take too long to respond to.

I won a Major Victory as the Axis in August of 1943. I took Poland and France slightly ahead of schedule, and decided on controlling the Med while attacking the USSR - no Sea Lion. Winning in North Africa is helped greatly by taking Malta and then swinging Spain to your side ( which allows a quick conquer of Gibraltar and then Portugal). Once I had the Afrika Korps moving forward at strength, I sacrificed the Italian navy to destroy the British Med fleet - it worked well, and I still had a few BB's and a sub left over.

The Italian Army went to Russia while the Afrika Korps pushed through to Iraq and eventually the Caucasus after Turkey swung to the Axis. Winning in the USSR, especially the first time taught me the value of managing supply through your headquarters properly. Leningrad and Stalingrad were not especially difficult to take - especially since I was pushing hard in those areas, but the center tends to bog down in front of Moscow because of supply issues. If I had managed my HQ's better it would have been easier I suppose.

Capturing Moscow did not end the game, but destroying the US invasion of France in June/July of 43 did it. Even though I had really hammered the Brit fleet, I was out of position for the attack, thinking they would go into Portugal or Algeria instead. They got 10 units into France - but killing the HQ allowed me to submit them with forces transported operationally from USSR front. It was a fun and satisfying campaign.



As the United Kingdom, Poland and France, the game plays out much differently, it's a stalling game until you start to get aid en masse from the US. By September the AI had conquered France - their morale sinks too quickly to really make the forces useful to defend. I positioned myself early on to take Libya and then Tunisia for an invasion early into Sicily.

As the UK your primary task is to eliminate each and every Italian and German ship, opening up maximum flexibility for your med forces and keeping your supplies flowing in unhindered. Over the course of the game I did just that, and it exposes the one weak point of the AI, it is too easily baited with it's naval forces, the surprise rules SHOULD NOT be used in naval combat - it makes it too lopsided.

I lost both Yugoslavia and Greece to the Axis, but it cost them, they had German forces there pushing the fight instead of on the Eastern front - where they led with all the minor nation troops plus the Italians. Needless to say the Germans could not push through to any objective - they never got closer that 4-5 hexes from any of the 3 main Soviet victory objectives.

Once I had my forces in Libya and Tunisia, I invaded Sicily and then jumped again towards Rome - I could have taken it, but the turn before the Italian morale sunk so low they surrendered. Getting all of Italy except for the few zoc's of the German units was too favorable. I immediately transported or operationally moved my units to secure Northern Italy's borders and isolated the German forces. Germany took over Vichy France and began coming after me from Yugoslavia, Austria and France - the US forces then decided to invade ... Algeria .... Not a smart play with all of Southern France wide open , but at least they were close enough for me to start moving them to Northern Italy manually.

With Germany locked up in Russia, I invaded Norway from England, taking it in two turns, then headed south and took Denmark and moved to the German border. a three pronged invasion took effect - Brits from Italy went up through southern France while the Americans held against the German forces in the Venice area. I jumped Brit and US paratroopers around Paris to link up with the Southern forces and took it. There was a wholesale attempt to move east front forces to the west, but the Soviet army was slow to capitalize on it, only reaching Konigsberg by the games end.

Montgomery pushed down from Denmark behind German forces in western Germany, and took Berlin in December of 43'. The last 4-5 months showed that the AI was having a hard time coping with multiple threat axis assaults, it never prioritized the greatest threat - Monty's Denmark force and only had a Garrison in Berlin for defense - many Heavy tanks, mechanized units and regular armor were still in the low country area and Austria.

I played the game on standard settings, so I am not surprised that I was able to accomplish what I did, my next playthrough as the Axis will be on the recommended settings of higher xp, MPP's and spotting for the AI - I think it will be a much harder challenge to replicate the results of the first two campaigns.

How did you take Malta? Before or after AA is deployed?
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Seminole
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by Seminole »

Honestly I find this game easy to play the only thing I'm not fully sure whats going on is supply,

There are some bugs, not sure if they're addressed in the last patch.
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
petrosian
Posts: 49
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by petrosian »

In my opinion, if you want a challenging game against the AI , only play one side and never turn off FOW. That way it will be a legitimate FOW.
gravyface_
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by gravyface_ »

ORIGINAL: Petrosian

In my opinion, if you want a challenging game against the AI , only play one side and never turn off FOW. That way it will be a legitimate FOW.

That's all I've been doing: not interested in playing as the allies at all and always leave FOW on.
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FF_1079
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by FF_1079 »

ORIGINAL: gravyface_

How did you take Malta? Before or after AA is deployed?

After it is deployed, it's pretty simple if you coordinate it properly. Once the Italians jump in - make sure you have both upgraded and full strength Italian air units in Sicily.

Bring in a German fighter, 2-3 German tactical bombers, one para troop division and one German HQ too boost them. When everyone is full strength and Italian ships are ready, blockcade the two ports with 3 ships - send out the sub and cruisers as pickets to detect the Brit BB's racing in, Bombard the actual Malta island with every BB before you assign them to block the ports. Then run your air attacks against the unit itself. The point is too get the supply of the island under 5 so the Air Unit can't reinforce itself, and do the same to the ports by blockading them ( they will go down 1 supply level every turn.

You should be able to destroy the AA over 2 turns with your air and Bombardments, then you can simply drop the para unit on top of the empty island. If you have any research already in Amphib invasion you can alternatively use a corps to take the island as well.

Once you take it, transferring the Maritime Bomber Germany can build and putting it there is a great help to winning the med for the Axis.
Fondly remembers SSI's "Clash of Steel"
gravyface_
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by gravyface_ »

ORIGINAL: FF_1079
ORIGINAL: gravyface_

How did you take Malta? Before or after AA is deployed?

After it is deployed, it's pretty simple if you coordinate it properly. Once the Italians jump in - make sure you have both upgraded and full strength Italian air units in Sicily.

Bring in a German fighter, 2-3 German tactical bombers, one para troop division and one German HQ too boost them. When everyone is full strength and Italian ships are ready, blockcade the two ports with 3 ships - send out the sub and cruisers as pickets to detect the Brit BB's racing in, Bombard the actual Malta island with every BB before you assign them to block the ports. Then run your air attacks against the unit itself. The point is too get the supply of the island under 5 so the Air Unit can't reinforce itself, and do the same to the ports by blockading them ( they will go down 1 supply level every turn.

You should be able to destroy the AA over 2 turns with your air and Bombardments, then you can simply drop the para unit on top of the empty island. If you have any research already in Amphib invasion you can alternatively use a corps to take the island as well.

Once you take it, transferring the Maritime Bomber Germany can build and putting it there is a great help to winning the med for the Axis.

Beauty
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freeboy
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by freeboy »

ignore MAlta it really will be better imo..
"Tanks forward"
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FF_1079
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by FF_1079 »

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ignore MAlta it really will be better imo..

In what way?

I find supply to be challenging when pushing into Egypt due to taken cities giving little to no supply for several turns - if the "Malta interrupts supply" event happens 3 turns in a row ( which it has in my earliest games ) you will not be pushing forward, and you will not be able to reinforce your German units adequately for rotation.

Or do you mean it in that you think it's "gamey" to take Malta?
Fondly remembers SSI's "Clash of Steel"
gravyface_
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by gravyface_ »

ORIGINAL: FF_1079

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ignore MAlta it really will be better imo..

In what way?

I find supply to be challenging when pushing into Egypt due to taken cities giving little to no supply for several turns - if the "Malta interrupts supply" event happens 3 turns in a row ( which it has in my earliest games ) you will not be pushing forward, and you will not be able to reinforce your German units adequately for rotation.

Or do you mean it in that you think it's "gamey" to take Malta?

A supply epiphany for me was keeping my HQs parked in towns and cities whenever possible. I have not tried that in North Africa however.
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FF_1079
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by FF_1079 »

ORIGINAL: gravyface_

ORIGINAL: FF_1079

ORIGINAL: freeboy

ignore MAlta it really will be better imo..

In what way?

I find supply to be challenging when pushing into Egypt due to taken cities giving little to no supply for several turns - if the "Malta interrupts supply" event happens 3 turns in a row ( which it has in my earliest games ) you will not be pushing forward, and you will not be able to reinforce your German units adequately for rotation.

Or do you mean it in that you think it's "gamey" to take Malta?

A supply epiphany for me was keeping my HQs parked in towns and cities whenever possible. I have not tried that in North Africa however.

SpzAbt653 is the source of a lot of very good and functional information about this game. I read his description of how to take Malta to do the same myself in game. I say that because it's not like I figured out the importance of taking Malta, or how to do it without some help.

He and others have discussed "chaining" HQ's - this is where you have two + HQ's working together on offense - take your lower rated HQ and park it in the closest supply city that is at supply 5 or higher. It will allow a another HQ to be at supply 5 three hexes away - and provide higher supply to units close to it. An HQ at supply 5 provides supply 8 - and if units are two hexes from it, they are supply level 6 which allows full reinforcement - something that is very important when in North Africa or the Soviet Union in areas with LARGE gaps between cities.

The number of hexes I am giving have to be clear and not muddy, because terrain effects also effect supply. In any case, the units of the Afrika Korps are strong enough to take Egypt IF Rommel is always in Supply state 5. That is the beauty of this game, it models the importance of supply in an easy to understand process.
Fondly remembers SSI's "Clash of Steel"
James Taylor
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RE: How is the A.I and how hard is it to get into ?

Post by James Taylor »

If you take 4 HQs, 2 German, 2 Italian, to NA then you can leave Malta alone. Just remember you'll always need one of each parked on a supply source.
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