Lambs to the slaughter (Lowpe (J) vs Jocke; BillBrown (A)) Finished

[Lowpe]

Experience thru bombing...

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

I've always found the 5c to be better as CAP and escort due to the armor. It's tough. I've never had escort not fly if set with drop tanks.

One key is to rest pilots and airframes for days before a battle if they're going to be flying a few days at max range. I've always thought the 5b was better than the 5, but that seems dubious looking at the stats. Only the one better CL gun and the climb, manoeuvre and speed are not as good as the 5.

For you at this point I'd do a combo of the 5 and 5c, and worry about converting all if you don't get the A6M8 before you have to make that choice! [:)]

Be good to do some tests on these versions since we all HAVE to use them for most of the war. See which do better as escorts, which do better as CAP, etc.

All good points, one thing I recall is that Alfred said not to rely upon escorting fighters with drop tanks...

In thinking about it, I believe I will prioritize land sentai first for the A6M5c conversion. The Allies are flexing their bombing muscles, and at present there is not better anti-bomber fighter than the 5c. I already have one squadron at Rabaul, and I am pondering where to upgrade the second.

Both of these fighters are available, and there are 30 or so Georges in the pool, but no sentai can fly them. [X(]

[Andav]

All good points, one thing I recall is that Alfred said not to rely upon escorting fighters with drop tanks...

When in doubt, LRCAP provided you can. It is one reason, although everyone hates them, building Oscars throughout the war is beneficial.

For me in the 5 vs 5c choice, armor is the real tipping point. I am not sure I built any 5bs because I wanted the 5c and with research it was easy to advance.

Wa

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Andav

All good points, one thing I recall is that Alfred said not to rely upon escorting fighters with drop tanks...

When in doubt, LRCAP provided you can. It is one reason, although everyone hates them, building Oscars throughout the war is beneficial.

For me in the 5 vs 5c choice, armor is the real tipping point. I am not sure I built any 5bs because I wanted the 5c and with research it was easy to advance.

Wa

Yep, LRCAP is good, but not for CV clashes. Where my ground bombers go...there is always some Oscars on LRcap.

I have built 1070 A6M5 and 390 A6M5b and 50 A6M5c so far....I, like you, skipped the 5 in my last game in my hurry to get the 5c, but the 5 and 5b are worthy planes. Good sweepers even now, range, cannons, agile....knock on wood.

[Lowpe]

Bombers in Burma...

Allies have been pretty conservative in their plane usage, and so have I in trying to counter them. We both sweep, with perhaps Japan sweeping more, but odds are neither side has been flying CAP except at large bases/important areas.

I really don't mind his bombers nailing the troops, if, and it is a big if, I can ambush those bombers at a later date. So far, all my ambushes have failed here in Burma -- but it is only a matter of time. I got quite a few licks in in India I recall.

There was no sweep, no LRCAP.

I stung the bombers fairly hard over in Canada early on when he flew into strong CAP...and I think he has learned those lessons and avoids Magwe which he hasn't tried even once.

Since the bombers have flown 3 days in a row, I suspect they will stand down, and perhaps he will sweep Shwebo with corsairs. But, I have decided to put up 3 sentai of fighters there. 2 Tonies and 1 Tojo IIc. Down low and layered. Even if he sweeps they should give a good account...and if the bombers come in sans escorts, he should really pay the price.

I have plenty of Tonies, and need to use them, and trading even 2-1 for corsairs is worth it to me over my own base.

[MakeeLearn]

AA had clear skies, but morale is "LOW FOG"

[Lokasenna]

You absolutely must get out of the A6M5. It gets slaughtered by Hellcats. You need the A6M5b at minimum, and the A6M5c is just better. The A6M8 is the only A6M that can hold its own against Hellcats, really.

[Lowpe]

Went back and re-read some of Spidery vs Mr.Kane. It is grim reading. July the CV clash occurs just prior to the invasion. Plenty of warning for Spidery, but he never spots troop transports. The fight was a meeting engagement, were the Japanese had tactical surprise pretty much. Spidery knew there was enemy carriers there...and Mr. Kane did not.

Weather plays a part in the battle (severe storms for the Allies and clear sky over the Japanese), and as I remembered Spidery used A6M5 as escorts and A6M5c as CAP.

One of the final strikes...we don't see warning time; we don't see patrol height; and we don't see scrambling, but it sure seems that the CAP should have performed better.


Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 18
A6M5c Zero x 116

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 54
SB2C-1C Helldiver x 31
SBD-3 Dauntless x 62
TBF-1 Avenger x 54

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5c Zero: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
SB2C-1C Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 9 destroyed
TBF-1 Avenger: 9 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 1
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CVL Ryujo, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Kongo, Bomb hits 5, on fire
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CLAA Tenryu

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You absolutely must get out of the A6M5. It gets slaughtered by Hellcats. You need the A6M5b at minimum, and the A6M5c is just better. The A6M8 is the only A6M that can hold its own against Hellcats, really.

Ok, taking your advice.[&o] I checked the upgrade paths, and will not make anymore A6M5 or A6M5b anymore. Onto the 5c, and then the A6M8.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

You absolutely must get out of the A6M5. It gets slaughtered by Hellcats. You need the A6M5b at minimum, and the A6M5c is just better. The A6M8 is the only A6M that can hold its own against Hellcats, really.

Ok, taking your advice.[&o] I checked the upgrade paths, and will not make anymore A6M5 or A6M5b anymore. Onto the 5c, and then the A6M8.

MM used the A6M5b. I do not think it did any better than the A6M5c, and I want to say it was probably worse, but it's hard to tell.

[Lowpe]

I finished my turn and sent it to Jocke, I had till this evening to finish, but got a little tired of it.

State of the Game: Horrible![;)] Japan's Empire is huge, and with the free divisions fighting still on California, supremely pressed for ground troops and very vulnerable. The counter of course is the KB which is undergoing upgrades. Uh-oh! In fact most of the IJN is in the home islands sipping sake.

The Allies have kept their CV's undetected for quite a while and are pushing forward in a very tactical manner with little risk. Never longer than one day at an invasion beach. All his T's are crossed and I's dotted so far. I have tried fairly low risk counters, which failed, and his subs got a shot at a CV and Battleship. Not good.

Burma is fairly solid right now despite Allies having a total domination on the Seas and have taken Ramree. I have trapped and isolated two Allied divisions and plans, they are blocked and sealed and the troops are marshaling to destroy them. Paoshan can only hold for a few more attacks and that will free more units to flow into Burma.

Sumatra...search is up, and only a few bases are held and fortified. I am just now putting troops on the Nicobars. AA at the oil.

Java...Tjliatjap is fortified and held. Cocos has search but needs more troops.

Ternate...building up nicely. Darwin, western Oz. Emily fly out of western Oz to watch Perth. Allies haven't really started building up anything in the area.

Alaska...pulling troops further east to prevent, or delay a cut off attack. I have moved all planes except a recon and search from the Canadian Islands.

The inner line of defenses for Japan are shoring up nicely: Luzon, Hokkaido/Kuriles, Formosa, Japanese Islands.

----

I have sweeps of Silchar with A6M5 (two sentai against 80 fighters); three Sentai of fighters over Shwebo (where he bombed last turn, this turn I expect he will sweep with Corsairs but given the few days off he may neglect to change the bombing run); sweeping Lae.

There is a tasty task force at Milne Bay...would he run it all the way to Lae with engineers and supplies? I figure he might wait a day or two.

Shortlands is getting more troops flown in by patrol plane and Emily-L. He has several forces to the south to bombard and reinforce...currently I choose not to contest this yet. Tomorrow I will put together a counter destroyer fleet at Rabaul.

Japan is in deep trouble. Right where I want her.

[Lowpe]

Just wanted to say that I reread the Spidery Mr.Kane...in August of 43 Kane dropped 8 divisions into Java.

The Allies I think could be poised to do something like that...

[ny59giants]

Have you started production on the Norm FP?? It has a high SR, but increased range helps with NavS. Early in the war as Japan, I've re-sized any FP group to 9 on available AVs and then taken off the 2nd FP groups from larger warships. Eventually, they get re-sized to 24 on my CS. That's the best you can do to try to fill in gaps of your NavS that your limited Emily/Mavis have left you. As mostly an Allied player, I do miss the numerous PBY groups to have almost continuous NavS coverage across the Pacific.

As always, you must focus on defending your economic assets so you can get this game into mid-45 or further. [;)]

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Have you started production on the Norm FP?? It has a high SR, but increased range helps with NavS. Early in the war as Japan, I've re-sized any FP group to 9 on available AVs and then taken off the 2nd FP groups from larger warships. Eventually, they get re-sized to 24 on my CS. That's the best you can do to try to fill in gaps of your NavS that your limited Emily/Mavis have left you. As mostly an Allied player, I do miss the numerous PBY groups to have almost continuous NavS coverage across the Pacific.

As always, you must focus on defending your economic assets so you can get this game into mid-45 or further. [;)]

Norm? This is pdu off --not a single Norm squadron. I have lots of Petes and Daves though.[:D]
[:D]

[Lowpe]

Reinforcements:

The 16th & 21st Division & 1st Tank Division respawn in Tokyo in the next 5-20 days. All three divisions need rebuilding and will hopefully form a reserve if I can buy them all out.

I get the four INA units, I always liked them. Perfect for guarding rear area bases in the Burma/Sumatra region.

And finally, I get two more South Seas units.

The Kagi, Akagi, Hiyo finish their upgrades, with about 20 destroyers. The Shinano arrives.

Not horrible. I just need the Allies to cooperate and plink around in the New Britain area.

[obvert]

i-boats.

You need some in the Indian Ocean. Spread out to warn of whatever may be coming.

Maybe also send an AV or two out there. Make sure you have time if he is coming.

[Lokasenna]

Tjilatjap is not sufficient to defend Java. Banjoewangi, unfortunately, is the easiest place to land and it's not easy to defend.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: obvert

i-boats.

You need some in the Indian Ocean. Spread out to warn of whatever may be coming.

Maybe also send an AV or two out there. Make sure you have time if he is coming.

I have a horde of these 1vp fishing trawlers. I believe even the one that was encountered during the raid on Tokyo...I probably could put them out there.

I am using Nells and Betties and Iboats for search. Some Emily, but not many. I probably should draw a tighter noose around Ceylon.

Most invasions, it seems to me, the Japanese have warning, but they refuse to believe it is an invasion, or they guess the wrong target. Or, most common, are simply out of place -- ships upgrading; drawn to far to one side of the Empire; etc., etc.

So far Jocke has been very conservative, nibbling here and there. I really thought he would go for the throat...the DEI oil. But, you know what...I have 7 million fuel and 3 million oil. It sure feels like a lot compared to a scenario 1 game. Unfortunately the oil doesn't refine into any supply. I think CR vs John's game has might have scared him into thinking an early/daring grab might be foolhardy. Especially when the ball is in his court now for a steady advance.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Tjilatjap is not sufficient to defend Java. Banjoewangi, unfortunately, is the easiest place to land and it's not easy to defend.

I have a a couple hundred AV at Soerabaja, but nothing at Loemadjang -- in the process of moving something there now... 730 AV total on Java...which sounds better than it looks.[;)]

I will take a look at Banjoewangi.

[Lowpe]

Planes I want to build, but have made no provision for yet:

Randy FB: several Lilly DB squadrons upgrade to her. 3 CL cannons, 360mph, ha33 eng; would add some deep defense. Arrives end of 44 (too late?). Makes up for the disappearing Nick squadrons that go down the NF tree.

Frances: several squadrons upgrade to the Frances.

Peggy NF: two possible squadrons, arrives late but you need the NF.

Frances NF: only one squadron, but the best NF I am likely to get.

Toka/Kikka: if the game lasts that long. They both realistically need 7 months of acceleration...which is a pipe dream -- oh, and you need to be alive thru half of 45 with supply.[8|]

Tabby: great transport, few squadrons.

Patsy: 3 squadrons, very late...but cool plane.

Dinah NF; Sam NF; Judy NF.

Some of these planes probably won't get R&D at all, others will get r&d really only to the level I want to produce them so they won't accelerate much if at all. I need the Oscar and Zero line to finish to free up the factories for them.

If I could do it all over again I would assign one factory to these planes from day 1:

Frances, Peggy NF, Frances NF, Randy FB. Olorin assigned 6 factories to the Sam-J and Ki94II so I would have had space to do it.