The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

[jwolf]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The primary objective in this theater is still to draw enemy units forward. I'll take what I can, but in some ways it's counterproductive to push John backwards right into territory I might want to invade from the other direction.

I see your point, but IMHO it is silly to let the Japanese keep a really good airfield (Moulmein) just so you can instead threaten it from a different direction.

[Canoerebel]

Wait, didn't I just explain that the Allies are moving on Moulmein in strength?

[&:]

[jwolf]

Well, maybe I misread you. You talked about Moulmein but didn't mention any other base by name. I would say in general, to take good airfields and deny them to the enemy is a win-win. But I admit I don't know which bases you're talking about in the "counterproductive" line.

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

When the campaign began on New Years Day, I didn't expect to press to Moulmein, for the very reason you suggest.

But the Japanese army in Burma seems to be in tatters now. I think the Allies can force Moulmein unless John brings in plenty of reinforcements. I want him to do so, so I'll towards Moulmein unless information develops that it's strongly held by fresh Japanese units.

The primary objective in this theater is still to draw enemy units forward. I'll take what I can, but in some ways it's counterproductive to push John backwards right into territory I might want to invade from the other direction.

Has he defended his bases in central Thailand (they have a 20AV garrison requirement for Japan)? Northern Indochina? Given that you're on Luzon now and those airfields seem to be fairly self-sufficient, you could probably use CVs to escort troops and supply across the SCS to Indochina... if you can take the bases via paratroops beforehand, that's huge. Especially if you're cutting rail lines.

[Lowpe]

Cam Ranh Bay...just a jaunt across the water...and his whole position folds ala WITPQS.[:D]

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: Lecivius
I know your focus is the Japanese Navy. Now that Rangoon appears to be on the cusp of falling, do you plan a serious land war in China, too?

China has always been a long-term objective. I have a generally idea what's going to happen when and where and with what units. But, like most of my plans it is highly dependent on what happens with KB.

China is like a clown car once you liberate either Chengtu or the capital. Chengtu is a good go to city because most Japanese players do not seem to garrison it well.

[Canoerebel]

Many of the things you guys are mentioning are either long-held plans or under consideration.

I'm nearing the point where Fun House is secure enough for Death Star to wander away - even far, far away. Many amphibious options are under review, ranging from simple/short range to complex/long range.

All of these are subject to re-evaluation and adjustment if KB shows up somewhere. Ships are in motion all over the place, awaiting all-clears to proceed.

[Canoerebel]

ORIGINAL: Wargmr
China is like a clown car once you liberate either Chengtu or the capital. Chengtu is a good go to city because most Japanese players do not seem to garrison it well.

I never lost Chengtu or Chungking (or, for that matter, Kunming, Sian, etc.). That's simply because John took Changsha and then stood down. We both established strong defensive lines. Eventually the Allies will go on the offensive in China. Whether sooner or later, I won't say.

[Canoerebel]

5/5/44

Fun House: See map for details.

Burma: See map for details. I think John's position is collapsing. He has to pull out of Rangoon soon or risk having his army isolated. I'm looking for signs that he does or doesn't recognize that...or that he's bringing in stiff reinforcements.

Since the campaigning really started on New Year's Day, he's had five divisions beat up. Of those, 12th is isolated in the jungles north of Lashio without a route of egress. 18th and 33rd are in or close to Rangoon and still getting chewed up in ground or air attacks.

Several mixed brigades and tank regiments have likewise been mauled.

[Mike McCreery]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

ORIGINAL: Wargmr
China is like a clown car once you liberate either Chengtu or the capital. Chengtu is a good go to city because most Japanese players do not seem to garrison it well.

I never lost Chengtu or Chungking (or, for that matter, Kunming, Sian, etc.). That's simply because John took Changsha and then stood down. We both established strong defensive lines. Eventually the Allies will go on the offensive in China. Whether sooner or later, I won't say.

I apologize for not being up on the particulars of the game. John is in for a world of hurt if you still hold most of China.

[Canoerebel]

Some information from the points screen. The screen also shows the latest positions in Burma and China.

[BBfanboy]

Not sure why you want to hit the ship repair yard in Shanghai. If you think valuable ships may be there, you must do a port strike to get them.
Hitting the SY to reduce repair capacity won't hurt him much. Nagasaki is only about 13 hexes away.

[Canoerebel]

Nagasaki almost certainly has uber-CAP, per a recent SigInt report.

I'm spreading B-29 targets around. First was Miri oil. Next is Shanghai shipyard (I chose that because it's still behind the front lines, unlike Saigon, Manila and even Hong Kong). Next I'll select something else. John's already spreading his fighters around, which is the real goal until I get within decent range of Home Islands industry.

[BBfanboy]

I mentioned Nagasaki as an alternative shipyard in the same area that could handle any work that Shanghai would give up because of damage to its SY. I was never suggesting you should attack Nagasaki.
Attacking Shanghai is a good idea, I just think the shipyard is the least bang for your effort. Why not target HI, or damage the port so it cannot move as much stuff? Just what is going through my head - you may have good reasons for your choice and I would love to get on the same wavelength! [:)]

[obvert]

One of the reasons to hit any strategic target (like Shanghai shipyards) is to gain strat bombing points. Dan has a pretty good breakdown of VP status above, but he doesn't mention the glaringly obvious lack of Japanese strategic losses. It's mid-44. He has to start hitting anything industrial and the VPs will skyrocket. That puts pressure on the Japanese player immediately, and those targets actually do have an impact as well. Some ships may be building in Shanghai, but supply is definitely produced by HI/LI, and oil of course i the most obvious target. There are also a lot of airframe factory in Manchuria that could soon be targets and likely have little CAP.

There are also a lot of bases on the interior of the HI that has industry but probably little to no CAP. Not to mention all of the DEI targets, or the many large resources producing centres.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: obvert

One of the reasons to hit any strategic target (like Shanghai shipyards) is to gain strat bombing points. Dan has a pretty good breakdown of VP status above, but he doesn't mention the glaringly obvious lack of Japanese strategic losses. It's mid-44. He has to start hitting anything industrial and the VPs will skyrocket. That puts pressure on the Japanese player immediately, and those targets actually do have an impact as well. Some ships may be building in Shanghai, but supply is definitely produced by HI/LI, and oil of course i the most obvious target. There are also a lot of airframe factory in Manchuria that could soon be targets and likely have little CAP.

There are also a lot of bases on the interior of the HI that has industry but probably little to no CAP. Not to mention all of the DEI targets, or the many large resources producing centres.

Only strategic bombing in the HI give strategic VPs. [:)]

[Canoerebel]

I hit Miri's oil in the first attack. John responded by placing (or increasing) fighter protection there and at Tarakan and Balikpapan. That was my goal. I won't target those bases any more, because there's no need to use valuable and somewhat fragile assets to target bases that should soon be shut down or impractically costly for John to use anyway.

I could target heavy industry or resources next, but John has a zillion bases producing those. Targeting them would have a certain effect, but the impact on John's "morale" would be dampened.

Shipyards are a valuable and relatively rare commodity, though. I think John's already shut down Manila, Hong Kong, and Saigon because of their proximity to Allied airfields. I believe he's also using uber CAP at Nagasaki. Ship repair is an important capability. So bombing Shanghai's facility should have an enhanced effect on his perception of the state of his empire. I hope he'll attend to CAP over key bases more fully. If I'm really successful it might contributed the added sense of pressure that will drive him towards using KB, sooner or later.

The Empire is in a newly fragile state. I'm trying to persuade John accordingly.

[BBfanboy]

Thanks for the explanation Dan. I see now that your goal of attriting the IJN fits with the targeting of SYs.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I hit Miri's oil in the first attack. John responded by placing (or increasing) fighter protection there and at Tarakan and Balikpapan. That was my goal. I won't target those bases any more, because there's no need to use valuable and somewhat fragile assets to target bases that should soon be shut down or impractically costly for John to use anyway.

I could target heavy industry or resources next, but John has a zillion bases producing those. Targeting them would have a certain effect, but the impact on John's "morale" would be dampened.

Shipyards are a valuable and relatively rare commodity, though. I think John's already shut down Manila, Hong Kong, and Saigon because of their proximity to Allied airfields. I believe he's also using uber CAP at Nagasaki. Ship repair is an important capability. So bombing Shanghai's facility should have an enhanced effect on his perception of the state of his empire. I hope he'll attend to CAP over key bases more fully. If I'm really successful it might contributed the added sense of pressure that will drive him towards using KB, sooner or later.

The Empire is in a newly fragile state. I'm trying to persuade John accordingly.

If I am in range of bases with shipyards. I try to bomb any ship that is there and leave the yards alone. The message is still the same-that that base is not safe for ships to stay for any extended period. Thus you have effectively closed down the yard. I like to spare the yard and capture them as intact as possible. Especially the three important big yards that are away from the home islands, Singapore, Manila and Hong Kong. Any yard close to Japan and I will bomb them if I have the chance.

[Grfin Zeppelin]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Gräfin Zeppelin

Such teachers are rare here sadly, especially regarding history. I understand that we cant devote 2 hours to battleships but couldnt we at least talk a bit about history and context ?

Both Germany and Britain nearly bankrupted themselves building battleships after 1906. The aim of both was to secure colonies that would improve their trade and wealth, and to do that they had to have sea power, which at the time was thought to require battleships.

So the naval race was on and in the end it brought ruin to both countries when they became embroiled in war to deny the other side a share of world trade.

How much better would it have been to decide trade zones through diplomacy and build cargo ships rather than battleships. That sort of question should get kids thinking about what the nature of human interaction is or should be - take or trade, power or sharing, fear or trust.

EDIT: Thus the need for a broad understanding of history - not just battles but why and what the times were like.

Indeed indeed.