THE WAR COLLEGE-Rio Bravo (A) v. El Lobo (J)

[CaptHaggard]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Are you sure the AR at Shortlands is safe from air strikes or sea bombardment?
ARs are not plentiful and should be kept a little further back from the front lines, even if it means a little extra time for a damaged ship to go to them for repair of low level engineering damage. I don't know what kind of threats El Lobo can throw at Shortlands so it's your call whether it is a safe enough place or not.

BB—

Good question. He has searched and frequently harassed supply TFs going at Rabaul with his Truk Bettys. He cannot reach Shortlands; surely, he must presume something is happening beyond Rabaul, however.

The plan is for all these vessels to arrive on station more or less at the last minute, so as not to be caught out prematurely.

My hunch is that—when the invasion armada stations itself next to Rota—his first thoughts for counterstroke are not going to be preoccupied with Shortlands as a target. Due to the vast hubbub that will ensue north, those southern stations are going to be under his radar until he settles that.

However, your words, as always, have much wisdom. When the armada—or—*stuff of nightmares*—what's left of it—sails back to PH (successful or not, that's where it's going), I'm suddenly going to be akin to a rotting bin of peaches plopped next to a hornets nest.

Ergo, probably a bad idea placing a valuable AR so close.

What I was thinking was: tenders and supply ships don't add much value in a place like Brisbane; theoretically, all those type ships during a campaign should be placed in forward stations extending port services closer to the action.

I now see ARs are like AEs—too valuable to be placed THAT far forward.

Thank you, BB, for double-checking me!

Hag

[pontiouspilot]

You may wish to re-think putting CVEs into a TF with front-line CVs. This slows the CVs far too much to be wise. I believe most put their CVEs into their own TFs and allocate them to duty other than front line combat eg. replenishment, ferrying, amphib support etc. Also make sure that your Amphib HQ doesn't "hit the beach"...it stays on board ship in amphib TF to do it's job. I second the comment of Bif about having something to soak up coastal guns embedded in your Amphib TFs....if you have no BBs to spare use something, anything with guns!

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

You may wish to re-think putting CVEs into a TF with front-line CVs. This slows the CVs far too much to be wise. I believe most put their CVEs into their own TFs and allocate them to duty other than front line combat eg. replenishment, ferrying, amphib support etc. Also make sure that your Amphib HQ doesn't "hit the beach"...it stays on board ship in amphib TF to do it's job. I second the comment of Bif about having something to soak up coastal guns embedded in your Amphib TFs....if you have no BBs to spare use something, anything with guns!

pontiouspilot-

Thank you for responding and for the advice.

THE CARRIERS

My idea was to keep all of the carriers and combat surface task forces in the same hex to escort all of the transports to the Marianas Islands. Additionally, all of the carriers are to sit in the hex East of Rota until all transports have unloaded and returned to the carrier hex. Lastly, once all the transports have returned to the carrier hex, all carriers and combat surface task forces would escort all of the transports back to Pearl. Accordingly, the carriers would all move at the same pace as the transports (i.e., 6 hexes per turn).

For this operation, if I were to run with the fast carriers and El Lobo's KB showed, he would wholesale slaughter the baby carriers and transports. My plan is, if the KB shows, to fight him with everything the Allies have, including all slow and fast carriers, and all surface combat ships.

I do worry a bit about El Lobo sending his surface combat ships after the carriers. But, hopefully, in the event El Lobo does send his surface combat ships after the Allied carriers, the Allied Avengers and Allied surface combat ships can take out a healthy amount of El Lobo's surface combat ships.

I am not going to the Marianas Islands to attend a Church Social with El Lobo. I am going to the Marianas Islands to fight El Lobo. I welcome the fight. I expect to receive heavy losses. I hope, I can kill numerous Japanese pilots and sink some of his combat surface ships.

Therefore, considering that I do not plan to run, speed is not important to me other than I would like to get in and out of the Marianas and back to Pearl as soon as possible.

Do you think my idea is suicidal? If so, what does one do, just book with the CVs and leave the rest of the Invasion Force to be slaughtered?

In a perfect scenario, I would prefer being able to land all troops, and to get in and out of the Marianas and back home without any air or naval fight. However, I highly doubt that will be the case.

COMBAT SHIPS with AMPHIBIOUS ASSAULT TASK FORCES

I had planned to have a minimum of one Destroyer (non-Fletcher) with each Amphibious Task Force.

However, upon Bifi's and your advice, I will inbed some BB with the Amphibious Task Forces in the event that I only have like 4 or 8 Amphibious Task Forces. If I have like 60 Amphibious Task Forces, then no way I would have enough BBs.

AMPHIBIOUS HQ

So, do I put the Amphibious HQ in an Amphibious Transport Task Force and click "Do Not Unload?" Send it to the hex being assaulted and let it sit there until all troops have unloaded?

AMPHIBIOUS ASSAULT TASK FORCE CONFIGURATION

pontious, in my post to Bifi above, which Amphibious Assault option do you think is best: Number 1, 2, 3, or 4?


As always thank you for your considered advice.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]April 22, 1943[/center]


Opening Notes

El Lobo bombs Chengtu and Chungking.

El Lobo deliberately attacks near Chengtu destroying the 8th Group Army and 10th Chinese Corps.

Allies bombard Shwebo, Lashio, and due East of Ramree Island.


Japanese Bomb Chengtu

Japanese Losses

2 damaged (Ki-21-IIa Sally)

Allied Losses

3 hits (Airbase)
10 hits (Runway)


Japanese Bombard Chungking

Japanese Losses

1 damaged (Ki-21-IIa Sally)
1 damaged (Ki-30 Ann)

Allied Losses

12 casualties
2 squads disabled
2 hits (Airbase)
29 hits (Runway)


Japanese Deliberately Attack Near Chengtu (hex 73,42)

Ground combat at 73,42 (near Chengtu)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 18752 troops, 355 guns, 791 vehicles, Assault Value = 1035

Defending force 4544 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 159

Japanese adjusted assault: 648

Allied adjusted defense: 28

Japanese assault odds: 23 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
117 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 18 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1856 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 152 disabled
Non Combat: 29 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
58th Division
3rd Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
1st Mobile Infantry Regiment
2nd Tank Division
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Field Artillery Regiment
5th Army
1st Mobile Field Artillery Regiment
22nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion

Defending units:
10th Chinese Corps
8th Group Army


Allies Bombard Shwebo

Japanese Losses

7 casualties
2 squads disabled

No Allied losses.


Allies Bombard Lashio

Japanese Losses

31 casualties
3 squads disabled

No Allied losses.


Allies Bombard Due East of Ramree Island

Japanese Losses

226 casualties
4 squads destroyed
14 squads disabled

No Allied Losses


Best Regards,

-Terry

[pontiouspilot]

I would go with option 1 given the addition of insulation to the Amphib TFs. More than 25 ships unless all landing craft a problem in my mind. Oh, make sure to throw in a few minesweepers too.

Even with your "all or nothing" charge I still wouldn't put the CVEs in the same TF as the CVs. The ampib HQ stays on ship (at some point you get several Amphip HQ ships as I recall, but maybe not until late war)...ie. it does not unload but regular ground HQ would unload...It's a while since I have used an Amphib HQ so check it's operational range. My recollection is 0-1 is max range.

What are the LCU's prep level at?

PS I would never put good Fletchers into the amphib TFs....it's perfect work for your old 4 pipers.

[Rio Bravo]

[center]April 23, 1943[/center]


A Comment

El Lobo has ceased his attempt to advance in Northern Burma. His troops have retreated into Mandalay and south along the road toward Taung Gyi.


Opening Notes

El Lobo bombs Chengtu, Chungking, and near Taung Gyi (hex 60,49).

Allies Capture Lashio.

Allies bombard Shwebo and due East of Ramree Island.


Japanese Bombs Chengtu

Japanese Losses

3 damaged (Ki-21-IIa Sally)

Allied Losses

11 casualties
2 squads disabled
6 hits (Airbase)
4 hits (Airbase Supply)
50 hits (Runway)


Japanese Bomb Chungking

Japanese Losses

1 damaged (Ki-21-IIa Sally)
1 damaged (Ki-49-Ia Helen)
1 damaged (Ki-30 Ann)

Allied Losses

49 casualties
8 squads disabled
4 hits (Airbase)
1 hit (Airbase Supply)
28 hits (Runway)


Japanese Bomb Near Taung Gyi (hex 60,49)

Japanese Losses

1 damaged (Ki-49-IIa Helen)

Allied Losses

52 casualties
2 squads destroyed
10 squads disabled
2 Vehicles lost
1 vehicle destroyed
1 vehicle disabled


Allies Deliberately Attack Lashio

Ground combat at Lashio (62,46)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 66204 troops, 1081 guns, 1388 vehicles, Assault Value = 2331

Defending force 10033 troops, 132 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 69

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Allied adjusted assault: 1204

Japanese adjusted defense: 115

Allied assault odds: 10 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Lashio !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2646 casualties reported
Squads: 117 destroyed, 33 disabled
Non Combat: 19 destroyed, 90 disabled
Engineers: 64 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 65 (45 destroyed, 20 disabled)
Units destroyed 2

Allied ground losses:
158 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled

Assaulting units:
268th Motorised Brigade
6th Australian Division
20th Indian Division
193rd Tank Battalion
34th Combat Engineer Regiment
24th Infantry Division
29th British Brigade
7th Australian Division
9th Australian Division
112th USA Base Force
1st Medium Regiment
78th Coast AA Regiment
I Australian Corps
2nd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
7th RTA Division
17th Indpt Guards Regiment
94th JAAF AF Bn
2nd JAAF AF Coy
1st JAAF AF Coy
20th JAAF AF Bn
114th Infantry Regiment
97th JAAF AF Bn
50th Field AA Battalion
67th JAAF AF Coy


Allies Bombard Shwebo

Japanese Losses

54 casualties
6 squads disabled

No Allied losses.


Allies Bombard Due East of Ramree Island

Japanese Losses

162 casualties
2 squads destroyed
14 squads disabled

Allied Losses

5 casualties
1 squad disabled


Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

I would go with option 1 given the addition of insulation to the Amphib TFs. More than 25 ships unless all landing craft a problem in my mind. Oh, make sure to throw in a few minesweepers too.

Even with your "all or nothing" charge I still wouldn't put the CVEs in the same TF as the CVs. The ampib HQ stays on ship (at some point you get several Amphip HQ ships as I recall, but maybe not until late war)...ie. it does not unload but regular ground HQ would unload...It's a while since I have used an Amphib HQ so check it's operational range. My recollection is 0-1 is max range.

What are the LCU's prep level at?

PS I would never put good Fletchers into the amphib TFs....it's perfect work for your old 4 pipers.

pontiouspilot-

I have always liked Option 1 too. I think Captain Haggard prefers a two-day assault with each day having only one large Amphibious Task Force per objective. In either event, a minimum of one destroyer and hopefully a minimum of one minesweeper will accompany each Amphibious Task Force.

I will take your advice and keep the Amphibious Headquarter units on ships.

The vast majority of all ground forces are 100% prepped for their individual objective. Only a few are lagging behind the 100% preparation (i.e., the ground forces that have recently arrived as reinforcements).

I never intended to put Fletchers with any Amphibious Task Force. However, I have earmarked Fletchers to accompany each Carrier Task Force and each Bombardment Task Force.

As always, your sage advice is appreciated.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]April 24, 1943[/center]


Opening Comment

The following units at Lashio were wiped out by attrition today:

114th Infantry Regiment
5th Field AA Battalion
20th JAAF Battalion
67th JAAF Battalion
94th JAAF Battalion
97th JAAF Battalion


Opening Notes


El Lobo bombs Chengtu, Chungking, and near Taung Gyi (hex 60,49).

Allies bomb near Toungoo (57,50).

El Lobo deliberately attacks near Chengtu (hex 73,42).

El Lobo deliberately attacks Lashio (crazy Banzai Emperor).

El Lobo bombards Shwebo.

Allies bombard Shwebo and due East of Ramree Island.


Japanese Bomb Chengtu

Japanese Losses

3 damaged (Ki-21-IIa Sally)

Allied Losses

4 hits (Airbase)
4 hits (Airbase Supply)
42 hits (Runway)


Japanese Bomb Chungking

Japanese Losses

2 damaged (Ki-49-Ia Helen)
1 damaged (Ki-30 Ann)

Allied Losses

48 casualties
7 squads disabled
4 hits (Airbase)
4 hits (Airbase Supply)
45 hits (Airbase Supply)


Japanese Bomb Near Taung Gyi (hex 60,49)

Japanese Losses

5 damaged (Ki-49-IIa Helen)

Allied Losses

50 casualties
9 squads disabled


Allies Bomb Toungoo

Japanese Losses

7 casualties
1 squad disabled
3 hits (Airbase)
3 hits (Airbase Supply)
16 hits (Runway)

No Allied losses.


Japanese Deliberately Attack Near Chengtu (hex 73,42)

Ground combat at 73,42 (near Chengtu)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 25759 troops, 437 guns, 1017 vehicles, Assault Value = 1133

Defending force 3196 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 46

Japanese adjusted assault: 860

Allied adjusted defense: 10

Japanese assault odds: 86 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
75 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
953 casualties reported
Squads: 134 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 30 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
1st Mobile Infantry Regiment
59th Infantry Brigade
58th Division
12th Tank Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Division
5th Army
22nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Mobile Field Artillery Regiment
1st Field Artillery Regiment
7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd RF Gun Battalion
5th RF Gun Battalion

Defending units:
10th Chinese Corps


Japanese Banzai Attack Lashio

Ground combat at Lashio (62,46)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 6890 troops, 81 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 27

Defending force 71271 troops, 1156 guns, 1487 vehicles, Assault Value = 2289

Japanese adjusted assault: 0

Allied adjusted defense: 7102

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 99 (fort level 0)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
Attacker: disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
2013 casualties reported
Squads: 140 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 123 destroyed, 144 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 21 (21 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
114th Infantry Regiment
17th Indpt Guards Regiment
97th JAAF AF Bn
20th JAAF AF Bn
50th Field AA Battalion
94th JAAF AF Bn
7th RTA Division
67th JAAF AF Coy

Defending units:
20th Indian Division
29th British Brigade
6th Australian Division
34th Combat Engineer Regiment
268th Motorised Brigade
193rd Tank Battalion
7th Australian Division
24th Infantry Division
9th Australian Division
I Australian Corps
78th Coast AA Regiment
1st Medium Regiment
112th USA Base Force
2nd Medium Regiment


Japanese Bombard Shwebo

Japanese Losses

21 guns lost
7 guns destroyed
14 guns disabled
4 vehicles lost
1 vehicle destroyed
3 vehicles disabled

No Allied losses.


Allies Bombard Shwebo

Japanese Losses

33 casualties
1 squad destroyed
1 squad disabled
1 gun lost
1 gun destroyed

No Allied losses.


Allies Bombard Due East of Ramree Island

Japanese Losses

448 casualties
4 squads destroyed
31 squads disabled

Allied Losses

7 casualties
1 squad disabled


Best Regards.

-Terry

[pontiouspilot]

Double check that damm amphib HQ...I lost my manual years ago.

BB boy....what your view on Rio's question on the amphib TF composition???

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Double check that damm amphib HQ...I lost my manual years ago.

BB boy....what your view on Rio's question on the amphib TF composition???

Was out of town for the weekend so did not see it before.

Amphib HQ - NB!
An Amphibious Corps HQ is a normal army HQ and should be landed immediately with troops.
An Amphibious Force HQ is to be kept on a command ship (AGC) to coordinate the landings. DO NOT UNLOAD IT. It needs to use the radios on the AGC.
DO NOT PUT IT IN THE SAME TF AS THE LANDING TROOPS lest you unload it with the troops. It should be in its own TF in the same hex as the landing troops.

Amphib TF Composition: Depends on the mission and target, but I will assume you mean against a tough target with shore batteries, mines, etc.

Sort your Amphib TFs into waves - fighting troops, Combat Engineers, Arty and essential support like HQs go in the first wave. If surprise has been achieved for the landings I do not put AA ashore until the second wave but if the Amphibs are spotted a day out, I do land AA with the first wave.

Embed minesweepers, enough BBs and CAs to soak up shore battery fire, DDs/DEs for ASW, and some amphib-loaded xAKs loaded with supply only.
Have standalone TFs for minesweeping, Surface Combat, ASW and bombardment. If CVEs are available, load them up with fighters only to fly CAP over the landings. Dive Bombers and Torpedo Bombers have limited effect against enemy troops behind forts.

Re: the pure bombardment TFs - embed a couple of DMS - they will automatically sweep mines, and set "No Escort Bombardment" so the DEs and DDs have full ops points and ammo for surface combat or ASW within the Bombardment TF. It also keeps them out of danger from shore batteries (DDs are very fragile).

As fast as you ships unload, set up a new TF with all the empties and a few escorts to get away from the landing site before subs and SCTFs arrive.

[Rio Bravo]

[center]April 25, 1943[/center]


Opening Notes

Captain Haggard's submarine sinks an El Lobo TK near Kure Island.

El Lobo bombs Chengtu.

El Lobo deliberately attacks the 37th Chinese Corps near Kweiyang (hex 74,47).

El Lobo deliberately attacks 32nd Infantry/C Division near Taung Gyi (hex 60,49).

El Lobo bombards Shwebo.

Allies bombard Shwebo and due East of Ramree Island.


Sub attack near Kure Island at 159,72

Japanese Ships
TK Zuiyo Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
TK Yamazuru Maru
TK Kuremente Maru
DD Yuzuki

Intelligence indicates TK Zuiyo Maru sunk.

Allied Ships
SS Balao, hits 2

SS Balao launches 2 torpedoes at TK Zuiyo Maru
Balao diving deep ....
DD Yuzuki fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Yuzuki attacking submerged sub ....
DD Yuzuki fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Yuzuki fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Yuzuki fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


Japanese Bomb Chengtu

Japanese Losses

3 damaged (Ki-21-IIa Sally)

Allied Losses

5 casualties
1 squad disabled
2 hits (Airbase)
2 hits (Airbase Supply)
34 hits (Runway)


Japanese Deliberately Attack Chinese Near Kweiyang (hex 74,47)

Ground combat at 74,47 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 5856 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 211

Defending force 793 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 6

Japanese adjusted assault: 222

Allied adjusted defense: 5

Japanese assault odds: 44 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Allied ground losses:
1015 casualties reported
Squads: 10 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 92 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
55th Infantry Brigade

Defending units:
37th Chinese Corps


Japanese Deliberately Attack U.S. Infantry Near Taung Gyi (hex 60,49)

Ground combat at 60,49 (near Taung Gyi)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 15352 troops, 130 guns, 186 vehicles, Assault Value = 563

Defending force 1776 troops, 34 guns, 50 vehicles, Assault Value = 30

Japanese adjusted assault: 527

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 527 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), leaders(-), disruption(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
47 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
480 casualties reported
Squads: 30 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 35 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 12 (12 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (12 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
38th Division
5th Recon Regiment
19th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
32nd Infantry/C Division


Japanese Bombard Shwebo

Japanese Losses

12 guns lost
2 guns destroyed
10 guns disabled

No Allied losses.


Allies Bombard Shwebo

Japanese Losses

43 casualties
2 squads destroyed

Allied Losses

1 vehicle lost
1 vehicle destroyed


Allies Bombard Due East of Ramree Island

Japanese Losses

182 casualties
2 squads destroyed
16 squads disabled
5 vehicles lost
1 vehicle destroyed
4 vehicles disabled


Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Double check that damm amphib HQ...I lost my manual years ago.

BB boy....what your view on Rio's question on the amphib TF composition???

Was out of town for the weekend so did not see it before.

Amphib HQ - NB!
An Amphibious Corps HQ is a normal army HQ and should be landed immediately with troops.
An Amphibious Force HQ is to be kept on a command ship (AGC) to coordinate the landings. DO NOT UNLOAD IT. It needs to use the radios on the AGC.
DO NOT PUT IT IN THE SAME TF AS THE LANDING TROOPS lest you unload it with the troops. It should be in its own TF in the same hex as the landing troops.

Amphib TF Composition: Depends on the mission and target, but I will assume you mean against a tough target with shore batteries, mines, etc.

Sort your Amphib TFs into waves - fighting troops, Combat Engineers, Arty and essential support like HQs go in the first wave. If surprise has been achieved for the landings I do not put AA ashore until the second wave but if the Amphibs are spotted a day out, I do land AA with the first wave.

Embed minesweepers, enough BBs and CAs to soak up shore battery fire, DDs/DEs for ASW, and some amphib-loaded xAKs loaded with supply only.
Have standalone TFs for minesweeping, Surface Combat, ASW and bombardment. If CVEs are available, load them up with fighters only to fly CAP over the landings. Dive Bombers and Torpedo Bombers have limited effect against enemy troops behind forts.

Re: the pure bombardment TFs - embed a couple of DMS - they will automatically sweep mines, and set "No Escort Bombardment" so the DEs and DDs have full ops points and ammo for surface combat or ASW within the Bombardment TF. It also keeps them out of danger from shore batteries (DDs are very fragile).

As fast as you ships unload, set up a new TF with all the empties and a few escorts to get away from the landing site before subs and SCTFs arrive.

BBfanboy-


Amphibious Corps Headquarter Units

The Allies will land the Amphibious Corps Headquarter unit.

The Allies don't have an Amphibious Force Corps Headquarters unit nor do the Allies have an AGC.

Composition of Amphibious Task Forces

The Allies intend to land approximately 165 ground force units. Approximately 45 of these ground units (in the aggregate) are infantry regiments. Further, the Allies intend to land enough supply to last all ground forces three to four months.

I have been advised that each Task Force should not include more than 25 ships. Accordingly, at 25 ships per Task Force, there are going to be numerous Task Forces.

The manual advises that Coastal Guns fire at each Task Force that enters the hex.

Would you advise keeping each Task Force with 25 ships or less?

One Wave or Two Waves

The Allies initial plan was to land all ground forces in one wave. The Allies think El Lobo will detect the Invasion Force at least two or three days prior to the Allies hitting the beaches.

Accordingly, do you advise hitting the beaches with all ground forces in one wave versus combat troops hitting the beaches during the first wave and support troops hitting the beaches during the second wave?

BBs

The Allies will have 20 BBs.

Accordingly, in the event that the Allies restrict the number of ships to 25 or less per Task Force, there won't be enough available BBs to include a BB in each Task Force.

Further, the Allies intend to have four Bombardment Task Forces with at least two BBs in each Task Force.

Consequently, the Allies have intended to include a minimum of one non-fletcher destroyer with each Amphibious Task Force. The Allies also intended to include a minimum of one minesweeper with each Task Force.

Amphibious Supply Task Forces

If an Amphibious Task Force consists of only xAKs and carries only supply, will the supply unload on the beach?

Loading Amphibious Task Forces

Based on all the ground forces that need to be loaded on Amphibious Task Forces at Pearl, Lahaina, and Hilo, do you have any idea approximately how many days it will take to load all troops?

End Note

I am not sure if you have seen previous posts herein this AAR that set forth all the ground forces and combat ships (exclusive of non-destroyer Fletchers) earmarked for Operation Sea Shark?

Best Regards,

-Terry

[BBfanboy]

Yes, TFs with more than 25 ships tend to have a lot of collisions, even if the enemy is not engaging at the time.
Generally, guns do not fire at Amphib TFs until they start to unload. In a 40nm hex it is easy to keep ships out of coastal gun range until they need to approach to land troops/supply.
Support troops that can help combat troops with coordination, guns or by helping recovery of disabled squads should be landed right away. Other support troops such as construction engineers can be held back until a good beachhead is established. Even if you don't take the base on the first day the number of troops you have ashore will guarantee a good beachhead with minimal losses during follow-up waves.

IMO 45 regiments is waaaay overkill for any operation. One of the principles of war is "economy of force" which means you bring enough to do the job and assign the rest to hurt the enemy somewhere else to keep him off balance. The AI might not benefit from your lack of action with the unneeded regiments, but a good PBEM player would use the breather to reinforce and fortify other bases in the area.

And if you are using them as individual regiments rather than combining them into divisions, you are missing out on the combat bonuses available to divisions. It is too late now if they are loading on ships but you should combine where you can and wait a couple of days for the increased TOE to fill out with artillery/AA, etc. I am thinking of the Marines at Maizuru here.

Amphib supply-only TFs will unload at the same rate as if the ships were in a troop carrying Amphib TF. They may also be shot at by shore batteries but supply and xAKs are expendable.

I can't answer your question about loading time. It depends on particular ships used, how big you built the port, how much naval support there is, etc.
Best policy is just to load the slowest ships like LSTs first, and move them toward as rendezvous point outside his search range while the others load. The faster ships might catch up to the lead ships before they get to the RV point. Keep your carriers near the bulk of the most vulnerable troops. Use deceptive routing if you can - as Canoerebel did in his major operations where the target could have been any of several island groups and it was not clear which was the target until just before the landings.

Good luck.

[witpqs]

Good advice!

One technical change: they altered the casualty parts of the combat routine to no longer penalize small units compared to large ones. That seems to have succeeded to the point where (IIRC) the Babes team even modified the Allied OOB so that the Australian regiments no longer combine into divisions.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Good advice!

One technical change: they altered the casualty parts of the combat routine to no longer penalize small units compared to large ones. That seems to have succeeded to the point where (IIRC) the Babes team even modified the Allied OOB so that the Australian regiments no longer combine into divisions.

I was thinking the main advantage was additional artillery and combat engineers plus the option to choose from the pool of leaders designated for large units. Most of the USMC large unit leaders are awesome!

[Rio Bravo]

[center]April 26, 1943[/center]


A very slow day.


Opening Notes

El Lobo bombs Chengtu.

Allies bombard Shwebo and due East of Ramree Island.


Japanese Bomb Chengtu

No Japanese losses.

Allied Losses

7 casualties
1 squad disabled
2 hits (Airbase)
1 hit (Airbase Supply)
5 hits (Runway)


Allies Bombard Shwebo

Japanese Losses

123 casualties
2 squads destroyed
5 squads disabled

No Allied losses.


Allies Bombard Due East of Ramree Island

Japanese Losses

247 casualties
20 squads disabled

No Allied losses.


Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Yes, TFs with more than 25 ships tend to have a lot of collisions, even if the enemy is not engaging at the time.
Generally, guns do not fire at Amphib TFs until they start to unload. In a 40nm hex it is easy to keep ships out of coastal gun range until they need to approach to land troops/supply.
Support troops that can help combat troops with coordination, guns or by helping recovery of disabled squads should be landed right away. Other support troops such as construction engineers can be held back until a good beachhead is established. Even if you don't take the base on the first day the number of troops you have ashore will guarantee a good beachhead with minimal losses during follow-up waves.

IMO 45 regiments is waaaay overkill for any operation. One of the principles of war is "economy of force" which means you bring enough to do the job and assign the rest to hurt the enemy somewhere else to keep him off balance. The AI might not benefit from your lack of action with the unneeded regiments, but a good PBEM player would use the breather to reinforce and fortify other bases in the area.

And if you are using them as individual regiments rather than combining them into divisions, you are missing out on the combat bonuses available to divisions. It is too late now if they are loading on ships but you should combine where you can and wait a couple of days for the increased TOE to fill out with artillery/AA, etc. I am thinking of the Marines at Maizuru here.

Amphib supply-only TFs will unload at the same rate as if the ships were in a troop carrying Amphib TF. They may also be shot at by shore batteries but supply and xAKs are expendable.

I can't answer your question about loading time. It depends on particular ships used, how big you built the port, how much naval support there is, etc.
Best policy is just to load the slowest ships like LSTs first, and move them toward as rendezvous point outside his search range while the others load. The faster ships might catch up to the lead ships before they get to the RV point. Keep your carriers near the bulk of the most vulnerable troops. Use deceptive routing if you can - as Canoerebel did in his major operations where the target could have been any of several island groups and it was not clear which was the target until just before the landings.

Good luck.

BBfanboy-

As always thank you for your quick response and sage advice.

Amphibious Task Force Composition

Yes, I agree. In order to reduce the number of potential ship collisions, Amphibious Task Forces will be limited to 25 ships or less.

Yes, I agree. The Allies will invade in two waves. The first wave will include infantry and those ground forces that support infantry units in one way or another. The second wave will include construction engineers, air and naval support units, and additional supply.

Economy of Force

As a general premise, I would agree that "Economy of Force" would be a sage "Principle of War." However, for the purposes of the Allied Grand Strategy, and in particular for the Allied Invasion of the four Southern Marianas Islands, I don't agree for the following reasons:

1.) The Allies do not have a clue what El Lobo has on the four Southern Marianas Islands.
2.) It is critical to the Allied Grand Strategy that the Marianas Islands be taken as quickly as possible in order to build-up ports, airbases, and forts as quickly as possible to set-up a staging area for the Invasion of Formosa.
3.) As soon as possible after securing the Marianas Islands, the Allies will invade Formosa. Accordingly, I want substantial ground forces on the Marianas Islands. I may as well get the ground forces at the Marianas Islands now to support achieving the goals set forth in number 2. immediately above.
4.) As part of the Allied Grand Strategy, the Allies do not presently plan to invade any Japanese occupied territory South of a line that runs roughly between the Marianas Islands and Formosa except for Babeldaod and a few islands close to Babeldaod. I do have plans to turn Babeldaod into Pearl Harbor Number 2.
5.) The Allied Grand Strategy calls for capturing the Marianas Islands, Formosa, the Southern Coast of China (and to free the trapped Chinese at Chengtu and Chungking), Manchukua (to hopefully trigger the Russians sooner), Korea, and to set-up a Naval Blockade of Japan Proper to split El Lobo's forces in half, to prevent resources from getting to Japan from the rich oil fields in the South, and to prevent reinforcement of Japan with troops from the South.

Divisions v. Regiments

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough and misled you.

The Allies won't leave Pearl Harbor until June 1, 1943. The Allies do intend to combine regiments into Divisions prior to hitting the beaches at the Marianas Islands.

Unloading Supply

It is good to know that Amphibious Task Forces only containing supply will unload supply on the beaches.

Loading Troops and Supply

Ground Forces and supply will be loaded at Pearl Harbor, Lahaina, and Hilo. The ports are at maximum level and each location has substantial fuel, supply, and Port Service units to hopefully accelerate loading.

The Allies do not plan to use LSTs for the Invasion of the Marianas. It is 79 hexes from Pearl to the Marianas. I am concerned about troop fatigue and disruption should ground forces be on LSTs and at sea for 14 or 15 days.

Eventually, the LSTs will be transferred to the Marianas to help with the capture of Babeldaod, etc. and eventually be transferred to Formosa for the invasion of China's Southern Coastal cities.

Misdirecting El Lobo

The Allies have purposely increased activity around Shortlands and Rabaul. The Allies are presently sending minor infantry battalions to Kaving, Manus, and Aitpae in an effort to misdirect El Lobo as to the Allies intent to invade the Marianas.

Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]April 27, 1943[/center]


Opening Notes

El Lobo bombs Chengtu and Chungking.

El Lobo destroys 10th Chinese Corps near Chengtu (hex 73,42)

Allies bombard Shwebo and due East of Ramree Island.


Japanese Bomb Chengtu

No Japanese losses.

Allied Losses

1 hit (Airbase)
24 hits (Runway)


Japanese Bomb Chungking

Japanese Losses

1 damaged (Ki-49-Ia Helen)

Allied Losses

10 casualties
2 squads disabled
12 hits (Airbase)
3 hits (Airbase Supply)
48 hits (Runway)


Japanese Deliberately Attack 10th Chinese Corps Near Chengtu (hex 73,42)

Ground combat at 73,42 (near Chengtu)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 25806 troops, 437 guns, 1017 vehicles, Assault Value = 1137

Defending force 1874 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 1057

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 1057 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
2005 casualties reported
Squads: 81 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 186 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
59th Infantry Brigade
12th Tank Regiment
58th Division
1st Mobile Infantry Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Division
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd RF Gun Battalion
7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Field Artillery Regiment
1st Mobile Field Artillery Regiment
5th Army
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
22nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
5th RF Gun Battalion

Defending units:
10th Chinese Corps


Allies Bombard Shwebo

Japanese Losses

106 casualties
2 squads destroyed
13 squads disabled
3 guns lost
1 gun destroyed
2 guns disabled

No Allied losses.


Allies Bombard Due East of Ramree Island

Japanese Losses

297 casualties
4 squads destroyed
33 squads disabled

No Allied losses.


Best Regards,

-Terry

[Rio Bravo]

[center]April 28, 1943[/center]


A Couple Interesting Developments

First, it appears that El Lobo is retreating from Shwebo. Yesterday, the Japanese had 1,671 AV at Shwebo. Today the Japanese AV is at 138 (the 6th RTA Div., 2nd Ind. Art. Mortar Bn., and the 22nd Ind. Mtn. Gun Bn.).

Second, it appears that Allied Artillery is now taking a heavy toll on Japanese troops in the jungle due East of Ramree Island. Yesterday the Japanese had 1,001 AV. Today the Japanese AV was at 942.


Opening Comments

El Lobo bombs Chengtu.

Allies Bombard Shwebo and due East of Ramree Island.


Japanese Bomb Chengtu

No Japanese losses.

Allied Losses

3 hits (Airbase)
4 hits (Airbase Supply)
15 hits (Runway)


Allies Bombard Shwebo

Japanese Losses

22 casualties
3 squads disabled
4 guns lost
4 guns destroyed

No Allied losses.


Allies Bombard Due East of Ramree Island

Japanese Losses

186 casualties
1 squad destroyed
11 squads disabled
4 vehicles lost
2 vehicles destroyed
2 vehicles disabled

No Allied losses.


Best Regards,

-Terery

[Rio Bravo]

[center]April 29, 1943[/center]


Interesting Comments


Allies capture Shwebo.

El Lobo forces the British to retreat from Mandalay into Shwebo.

A map of Burma is below.


Opening Notes


El Lobo bombs Chengtu, Chungking, and Mandalay.
El Lobo shock attacks near Chengtu (hex 72,42).
El Lobo deliberately attacks Mandalay.
Allies deliberately attack Shwebo.
Allies bombard due East of Ramree Island.


Japanese Bomb Chengtu


No Japanese losses.

Allied Losses

2 hits (Airbase)
19 hits (Runway)


Japanese Bomb Chungking


Japanese Losses

1 damaged (Ki-49-Ia Helen)

Allied Losses

17 casualties
3 squads destroyed
8 hits (Airbase)
2 hits (Airbase Supply)
47 hits (Runway)


Japanese Bomb Mandalay

Japanese Losses

1 destroyed (Ki-21-IIa Sally)
13 damaged (Ki-49-IIa Helen)

Allied Losses

66 casualties
1 squad destroyed
17 squads disabled
3 guns lost
1 gun destroyed
2 guns disabled


Japanese Shock Attack Near Chengtu (hex 72,42)


Ground combat at 72,42 (near Chengtu)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 10794 troops, 155 guns, 935 vehicles, Assault Value = 693

Defending force 13536 troops, 73 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 527

Japanese adjusted assault: 611

Allied adjusted defense: 115

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
217 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 16 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
1147 casualties reported
Squads: 6 destroyed, 203 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 58 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Tank Regiment
12th Tank Regiment
1st Mobile Infantry Regiment
9th Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Division

Defending units:
8th Chinese Corps
17th Group Army


Japanese Deliberately Attack Mandalay


Ground combat at Mandalay (59,46)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 68706 troops, 690 guns, 255 vehicles, Assault Value = 2115

Defending force 19000 troops, 395 guns, 191 vehicles, Assault Value = 560

Japanese adjusted assault: 1186

Allied adjusted defense: 286

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1580 casualties reported
Squads: 13 destroyed, 212 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 36 disabled
Guns lost 18 (1 destroyed, 17 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
4644 casualties reported
Squads: 84 destroyed, 133 disabled
Non Combat: 198 destroyed, 135 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 15 disabled
Guns lost 109 (27 destroyed, 82 disabled)
Vehicles lost 56 (30 destroyed, 26 disabled)
Units retreated 10

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
21st Infantry Regiment
52nd Division
4th Guards Division
14th Tank Regiment
Imperial Guards Division
11th Infantry Regiment
5th Guards Division
18th JNAF AF Unit
46th JNAF AF Unit
10th JNAF AF Unit
76th JAAF AF Bn
14th JNAF AF Unit
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
39th JAAF AF Bn
11th RF Gun Battalion
34th Field AA Battalion
23rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
207th JAAF AF Bn
6th JNAF Coy
91st JAAF AF Bn
17th Army
25th Air Defense AA Regiment
1st Mobile AA Battalion
15th JNAF AF Unit
70th JAAF AF Bn
14th JAAF AF Coy

Defending units:
26th Indian Brigade
14th British Brigade
16th British Brigade
23rd British Brigade
135th USA Base Force
RAF 223 Group Base Force
29th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
205th Coast AA Regiment
76th Coast AA Regiment
3rd (Special Force) Division


Allies Deliberately Attack Shwebo


Ground combat at Shwebo (59,45)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 26260 troops, 771 guns, 966 vehicles, Assault Value = 1026

Defending force 4288 troops, 69 guns, 15 vehicles, Assault Value = 140

Allied adjusted assault: 510

Japanese adjusted defense: 51

Allied assault odds: 10 to 1 (fort level 6)

Allied forces CAPTURE Shwebo !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-), morale(-)
experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1001 casualties reported
Squads: 75 destroyed, 38 disabled
Non Combat: 68 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 47 (32 destroyed, 15 disabled)
Vehicles lost 10 (10 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 3

Allied ground losses:
33 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 8 (1 destroyed, 7 disabled)
Units pursuing 1

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
627th Tank Destroyer Battalion
762nd Tank Battalion
Americal Infantry Division
763rd Tank Battalion
641st Towed Tank Destroyer Battalion
41st Infantry Division
147th Field Artillery Regiment
30th Field Artillery Regiment
181st Field Artillery Regiment
138th USA Base Force
183rd Field Artillery Regiment
140th USA Base Force
226th Field Artillery Battalion
206th Coast AA Regiment
216th Coast AA Regiment
188th Field Artillery Regiment
249th Field Artillery Battalion
205th Field Artillery Battalion
168th Field Artillery Regiment
65th Coast AA Regiment
15th Indian Engineer Battalion
Southwest Pacific
2nd RAAF M/W Sqn
97th Field Artillery Battalion
198th Field Artillery Battalion
134th Field Artillery Battalion
40th Field Artillery Regiment
110th USA Base Force
214th Coast AA Regiment
17th Indian Light AA Regiment

Defending units:
6th RTA Division
22nd Ind.Mtn Gun Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion


Allies Bombard Due East of Ramree Island


Japanese Losses

184 casualties
2 squads destroyed
21 squads disabled

No Allied losses.


Best Regards,

-Terry