TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

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warspite1
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1

I think that, while there is always a risk of course, the weather (as it did for us if you recall [:@]) is actually not helping the Allies in forming a line behind the Dyle. The weather, plus a shortage of units means that they are stretched. Yes, the turn could end, the weather then turns fine and they get the first impulse, but then again maybe not.
No, I did not recall that. Funny thing memory.
warspite1

Indeed - see post 48

tm.asp?m=4060465&mpage=2&key=
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I agree with Orm. Either attack in S/O, or wait until you can grab Rotterdam, which means M/A after you get the paratrooper.

You got lucky with the Allied port strike. One transport was knocked out for two turns, and one for three. Your AA rolls were ridiculous. (The odds of rolling that well were 8 chances out of a 1000.) Except for Bulgaria, things are going well for the Allies. It is much better to have the Allies attack Italy than having Italy attack France and the CW, unless the Allied attack is more successful than it was. Losing the Sardinian resource was annoying, but no more than that. Indeed, it should be possible to contest Sardinia with a division, since you still hold Cagliari.
warspite1

For my part I disagree. I do not want to spend the next 2 turns (maybe more depending on weather) waiting to do something while the Allies have completely taken the initiative with first Bulgaria, and then Italy.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by peskpesk »



Might I suggest a daring German Naval raid to punch the Evil Allied powers? 4 ships have nice size and bad weather is soon here and enemy CVs are not in good positions.

A premature land offensive is often a good way to loose the advantage or even the war.

The Axis should celebrate the low US entry, what a chance to keep the US away for a long time and start by not giving them good 39 chits.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by brian brian »

I never play with the Bottomed Ships rule because a) I usually forget about it later, when it could actually happen, and b) because I would probably rather build a newer ship than re-building a pre-war ship. Even for the USA, the only power that can afford to build very many ships.

But it is a good rule, with obvious ties to historical decisions for those wishing for maximum historical detail.

I think I will suggest it for my next game as the Axis. Very handy for those Transports, the naval unit that ultimately wins wars.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: peskpesk



Might I suggest a daring German Naval raid to punch the Evil Allied powers? 4 ships have nice size and bad weather is soon here and enemy CVs are not in good positions.

A premature land offensive is often a good way to loose the advantage or even the war.

The Axis should celebrate the low US entry, what a chance to keep the US away for a long time and start by not giving them good 39 chits.
warspite1

A premature naval raid is a good way of losing your navy too [;)] Not that the navy can do anything for now as they are heavily engaged in the Baltic.

Sometimes you have to take a chance - the Axis did in our first game and somehow - still wondering quite how [;)] - they didn't lose their cruiser, didn't lose the land unit she was carrying, and managed to get the breaks on weather and turn length, resulting in an early Vichy.

But the point is - whist I don't know where they will place the Belgians - there is a chance the turn will end and/or there is bad weather next impulse and the Germans get across the Dyle anyway.

The way I see it the French have taken a very large gamble with the number of units in the south. I am really uncomfortable allowing them that 'freebie'.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Orm »

I am really uncomfortable allowing them that 'freebie'.
What freebie? They are provoking you and succeeding.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Orm
I am really uncomfortable allowing them that 'freebie'.
What freebie? They are provoking you and succeeding.
warspite1

They have chosen a weak northern defence in order to may an early attack on Italy. I want to make them wish they hadn't [;)]
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Sometimes you have to take a chance - the Axis did in our first game and somehow - still wondering quite how [;)] - they didn't lose their cruiser, didn't lose the land unit she was carrying, and managed to get the breaks on weather and turn length, resulting in an early Vichy.
And they didn't gain anything at all by doing this. The cruiser got damaged.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm
ORIGINAL: warspite1

I think that, while there is always a risk of course, the weather (as it did for us if you recall [:@]) is actually not helping the Allies in forming a line behind the Dyle. The weather, plus a shortage of units means that they are stretched. Yes, the turn could end, the weather then turns fine and they get the first impulse, but then again maybe not.
No, I did not recall that. Funny thing memory.
warspite1

Indeed - see post 48

tm.asp?m=4060465&mpage=2&key=
Yes, that I do recall. I still think it is different.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by warspite1 »

In terms of not getting over the Dyle, which set up are you concerned about?
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by peskpesk »

My guess the classical Rear defence: The CAV is scarified in Liege to keep Dyle river line, while the rest units cower in the rear next to the Frence boarder
to minimise effect from ground strike. (The Defence only have a chance of success if the Germans don’t have Rotterdam). The Germans can only attack the Liege hex.
The plan is to leave Antwerpen empty for the CW to move into and defend and Brussels empty for the French to advance into. The also take the empty hex next to Brussels.
So without the Rotterdam hex, or possibly Para/invasion from North sea the Germans are "doomed" , the face ready allied units from behind a intact river line in city hexes and need to use a offinsive chit to break it! My advice is don't do it. I have seen too many games go to waste because of this. Ofcourse you can roll tens or get lucky anyway but it is a hard enough to Vichy France without this handicap. And finally we have the risk of bad weather...
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Courtenay »

Yes. I agree with everything peskpesk said. (Except I think he meant cower, not cover.)

Note that given this setup, it is impossible for the Germans to capture either Antwerp or Brussels, unless they somehow manage to flip all of the Allied units on the French border, which I doubt is possible. It is not a question of dice rolling; there aren't any attacks to be made.

Attack in either S/O, or in M/A, not any of the months in between.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

In terms of not getting over the Dyle, which set up are you concerned about?
First I fear this.

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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Orm »

And since we do not move first we have no idea if the weather will favour us when they move or hot. Although it would not make any real difference if the ground strike on the Belgians fail. Then they could move like this.

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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Orm »

But mostly I fear this. Not exactly the same but close enough. Same turn and impulse and the Germans are in similar position. And the Allies can make a similar reaction.

tm.asp?m=3797099&mpage=4&key=

See posts #115 and #120.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Orm »

Not that it will be all fun if the Allies use a classic setup. Then we have a shot at Brussels but we might feel the need to use a offensive to have a reasonable chance of success. And since it is late in the turn, and winter is on its way, it feels like a decent chance of wasting a offensive chit. Almost 3:1 on Brussels with 4 bombers supporting the attack isn't all that good.

Germany is not prepared to march into Belgium with units disorganized in the attacking stacks.

Edit: Only these 4 German units can actually reach to attack Brussels. [:(] (With the standard Brussels defence)

Edit 2: And even worse with a standard Antwerp defence since there are no German loss unit for an attack on Antwerp.

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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Orm »

Mostly, however, I object because I thought we had a plan and I played after it. Taking the DOW with Italy to decrease the US entry. Making the position somewhat more difficult for Italy but could be good for Axis in the long run with a late US entry.

Suddenly that doesn't really matter any longer because Allies play aggressively?! I could, and probably should, have said that they would play aggressively as Allies. Just look how aggressive they played Axis in our other game. And I think we got a pretty good situation in that game. There the Soviet union will save the free world and break the evil Axis in tiny pieces despite their aggressiveness and our 'passiveness'.

If we change our opinion about keeping the US entry down then why didn't we do that before the Allied DOW on Italy? Then, at least, Italy could have had a shot at taking down a British carrier on the surprise. And would still have the transporters. And could have invaded instead of being invaded.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Orm »

I suggest you instead consider a invasion of Netherlands for next impulse. If we get one more impulse, that is.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Courtenay »

ORIGINAL: Orm

I suggest you instead consider a invasion of Netherlands for next impulse. If we get one more impulse, that is.
What CW transports are available to get units into Rotterdam? If the Allies can't land a force in Rotterdam, then an invasion of the Netherlands might be a good idea. If they can, then it is not a good idea.
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RE: TOP SECRET ORM + WARSPITE ONLY (Reverse AAR)

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

ORIGINAL: Orm

I suggest you instead consider a invasion of Netherlands for next impulse. If we get one more impulse, that is.
What CW transports are available to get units into Rotterdam? If the Allies can't land a force in Rotterdam, then an invasion of the Netherlands might be a good idea. If they can, then it is not a good idea.
All the Allied TRS have been committed. But CW has one TRS in the North Sea that can debark one unit (5-4) into Rotterdam. Or France can abort their TRS to Rotterdam and thereby getting one French unit (6-4) into Rotterdam.

So Allies can get one unit into Rotterdam. Not even the ATR can help because no unit is available that can be airlifted. Although if they decide to plane one unit in Rotterdam there is a small chance that the turn ends and they can reinforce the city.

So maybe there is an opportunity to invade Netherlands now.
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