AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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fulcrum28
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AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by fulcrum28 »

I have two questions:

1) How do you use the AV units? i think they are seaplane tenders so they should be able to create bases for using seaplanes. In the Battle of coral sea, i tried to deploy the seaplanes to provide cover to the task force, but the TF was attacked by US naval airplanes and there was no response from the seaplane fighters. The AVs were also sunk. How is the correct deployment for them?

2)When landing in Port Moresby, I found severe artillery and coastal fire against the Japanese unloading ships and assault infantry. I tried to perform ground attack with Nells before the landing. what is the best way to suppress this artillery in the game? Combination of bombardment from TFs + ground air force attacks?

Thanks!
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Revthought
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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by Revthought »

1. AVs have two uses. Use them to move planes from one location to another, OR to provide support for air units. To do the second, they need to be disbanded in a port and have supply. They're tenders not "carriers," so planes aren't going to take off from them if they're in a task force.

2. Mix combat ships in with landings. Ships with the ability will bombard coastal guns when they shoot at your ships, this will greatly reduce the effectiveness of your enemies shore guns.
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crsutton
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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by crsutton »

Use seaplane tenders at remote dot based hexes that are unlikely to be looked at by the enemy. They are tenders-not carriers. The planes must operate from land. They will however provide the support so that can happen.

Embed heavy cruisers or old BBs directly into your amphibious TFs. They will provide counter battery fire and suppress shore guns, and draw most of the return fire instead of it shooting at you transports. This is more effective than direct bombardment of ground forces in the short term. If you have the time and resources a week or two of air attacks will help wear down the enemy as well but might also give away your plan.
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HansBolter
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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by HansBolter »

Some of the tenders have a 'capacity' to operate planes and can be used as seaplane 'carriers' like the Japanese CS.

The Langley and Wright have capacities of 4 planes and a couple of small Dutch AVPs have a capacity of one plane.

All other AVs, AVPs and AVDs, can only serve as tenders, disbanded with supply, in even a dot base hex to provide AV support for operating seaplanes from the base.

Disbanded in the base makes them less vulnerable. They can't be hit by opportunistic naval attack strikes.

It takes a recon of the base to discover them and then a targeted port strike or naval bombardment to get at them.
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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by InfiniteMonkey »

ORIGINAL: crsutton
Use seaplane tenders at remote dot based hexes that are unlikely to be looked at by the enemy. They are tenders-not carriers. The planes must operate from land. They will however provide the support so that can happen.
ORIGINAL: Revthought
1. AVs have two uses. Use them to move planes from one location to another, OR to provide support for air units. To do the second, they need to be disbanded in a port and have supply. They're tenders not "carriers," so planes aren't going to take off from them if they're in a task force.

Note: I thought this as well, but some AV can operate planes at sea. Most (all?) Japanese AV act as seaplane carriers. The Critical question is "Does the ship have Aircraft Capacity > 0?" If it does, it can operate either seaplanes (CS/AV/AVD) or carrier capable aircraft (CV/CVL/CVE).

I tested this as Japan by standing down all my air groups (both land and ship based), then set recon missions with the seaplanes from one of my AV's in Malaya. Recon missions and Nav search missions flew from an ocean only hex. However, they will not conduct strike missions (no sorties).

For the Allies, AV Langley and AV Wright should both operate up to 4 sea planes while at sea. AVP Arend and AVP Valk should be able to operate a single plane each at sea. (Scen 1) I have not tested as Allies.
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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by Leandros »

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Some of the tenders have a 'capacity' to operate planes and can be used as seaplane 'carriers' like the Japanese CS.

The Langley and Wright have capacities of 4 planes and a couple of small Dutch AVPs have a capacity of one plane.

All other AVs, AVPs and AVDs, can only serve as tenders, disbanded with supply, in even a dot base hex to provide AV support for operating seaplanes from the base.

Disbanded in the base makes them less vulnerable. They can't be hit by opportunistic naval attack strikes.

It takes a recon of the base to discover them and then a targeted port strike or naval bombardment to get at them.

This was very useful information, new details. Thank you.

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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by Revthought »

ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey
AV as carriers.

It probably should not be the case that carrier capable aircraft can be used on float plane/sea plane carriers.

The CS class ship is, of course, a special case and not an AV, and if you choose to use an AVs small plane capacity, you have to be careful (I assume) that you're not "over capacity" or they won't launch aircraft.
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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by InfiniteMonkey »

ORIGINAL: Revthought
ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey
AV as carriers.

It probably should not be the case that carrier capable aircraft can be used on float plane/sea plane carriers.

The CS class ship is, of course, a special case and not an AV, and if you choose to use an AVs small plane capacity, you have to be careful (I assume) that you're not "over capacity" or they won't launch aircraft.
Sorry, I was not clear. I meant that if a ship has a capacity, it can operate aircraft at sea. The type of aircraft it can operate varies by type: CV/CVL/CVE are carrier capable, CS/AV/AVD are float planes. I did not mean to imply that AV could operate carrier capable aircraft.

The big distinction between a CS and an AV for Japan (aside from number of aircraft) is that a CS has Sortie points so they can perform strike missions. Missions which would require sortie points to fly cannot be flown from an AV. Fun fact: An E13A1 Jake carries a heavier bomb load than a Ki-36 Ida.

You have to make sure you do not exceed capacity with every ship that carries planes - including cruisers and battleships. That's nothing new.
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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by Insano »

ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey

ORIGINAL: Revthought
ORIGINAL: InfiniteMonkey
AV as carriers.

It probably should not be the case that carrier capable aircraft can be used on float plane/sea plane carriers.

The CS class ship is, of course, a special case and not an AV, and if you choose to use an AVs small plane capacity, you have to be careful (I assume) that you're not "over capacity" or they won't launch aircraft.
Sorry, I was not clear. I meant that if a ship has a capacity, it can operate aircraft at sea. The type of aircraft it can operate varies by type: CV/CVL/CVE are carrier capable, CS/AV/AVD are float planes. I did not mean to imply that AV could operate carrier capable aircraft.

The big distinction between a CS and an AV for Japan (aside from number of aircraft) is that a CS has Sortie points so they can perform strike missions. Missions which would require sortie points to fly cannot be flown from an AV. Fun fact: An E13A1 Jake carries a heavier bomb load than a Ki-36 Ida.

You have to make sure you do not exceed capacity with every ship that carries planes - including cruisers and battleships. That's nothing new.

A Jake carries a heavier bomb load than a Sonia too.
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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by InfiniteMonkey »

ORIGINAL: Insano
A Jake carries a heavier bomb load than a Sonia too.
Yeah. I am not a fan of any of the Japanese bombers. They all carry underwhelming loads. I guess I was just trying to highlight that despite being a float plane, it could carry a useful load compared to other Japanese bombers. Of course, it is as slow as molasses...
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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by Oberst_Klink »

I love Jakes... they're so versatile and got a good range... and ay, AVs for the Japanese at dot-hex bases are invaluable.

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fulcrum28
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RE: AV vessels and suppression of artillery/coastal defenses

Post by fulcrum28 »

very useful comments, thanks a lot!
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