Some feedback after 100+ hours with DC1/DC2 and ATG

[steelwarrior]

Hey Vic,
first of all I appreciate the great effort and really good games you created - I own all of them - also DC3 and will play them one by one ;-D I feel that you have in many ways created one of the most enjoyable WWII mechanics and in depth - that I ever played - as being an small company this must be really done with heart and motivation - also the way you answer in the forums - thanks for that.
Now 90% of your games feel close to perfect - but 10% are really infuriating from time to time. Before I wrote this I read a lot of AARS, in forums and reviews on Steam and I get the impression I am not the only one struggeling with these issues - maybe they are even the reason why DC does not sell even better.
Basically it is the feeling of fighting rather WWI in some aspects than WWII - but with a tight Blitzkrieg timer.

The reason is how Luftwaffe and Panzers/motorised units work for the AXIS. They basically do not enough damage(in morale, readiness and losses)and do not get enough actions in a turn - gameplay wise as compared to history. Right now a few infantry units with low readiness and morale thrown in the way can cost the victory in time (not enough time to encircle and they just do not go away) - in history the combined force of Luftwaffe and Panzers would have broken or overrun these units easily and by that they would not have been a obstacle - while in ATG and DC they are - you can completely stop an armored thrust by enough some hundred infantry men units with readiness and morale of 30 and lower - the absolute nightmare for an AXIS player is a several hex deep weak defense as it will takes turns and turns to fight through them - I experience that right now in Kerch in DC2 - the AI keeps on throwing nearly broken and wiped out units at me and instead of me pushing them away or breaking them - they cost me turn after turn and make it impossible to reach Kerch in time - even though I encircled and destroyed 90% of the forces there.
So my suggestions are:
More attack power for Luftwaffe and Panzers against infantry that is not dug in or hardly dug in - but even dug in units should not be able to withstand so much - see difference between WWI and WWII.
A mechanic that allows realiably to break units if they are under a certain treshold of readiness and morale - so intead of pushing them ahead each turn (which is also unrealistic as they were slower - they would get overrun in reality and by that taken out of the game - (see the good old Panzer General they are taken out without encirclement.)
To not make Luftwaffe and Panzers too powerful you could reduce the fuel even more - so they cannot be used every turn but if they are used they really do what they didi in WWII. Lets say units under 30 readiness should always be broken by armored and motorised units, if attacked succesfully - instead of panicking and reatreating forver.
In the old DC and ATG you could counterbalance it by giving tanks and motorised units only 75 action points per turn, but they can save up to 225 action points - so if they move and attack it is decisive...
Saving up more action points for armored and mostorised units could be an interreesting concept in all DC titles - as they did rest in real life from time to time - but then really did move a lot and overrun a lot!

I am of course talking about SP - there you could even give the AI more units to counterbalance things - the same for multiplayer...but make it WWII and not so much WWI ;-D

I wonder what you and other players think about these things...

I wish I can help make this already very good game mechanic better and maybe without being to infuriating with the WWI mecahnics it would also sell a lot better / and I wish that for you - as I still dream of many DC campaigns..) - it seems (from what I read)that as it is the many players have a hard time even winning once...due to the above issues....

For me nothing is more infuriating then having invested 10+ hours in counter movement and then be stopped by bad dice rolls on breaking and which direction units retreat/panick too - so basically bad luck...I guess any other players will also feel like this and give up on the game - whish is a shame... as it is brilliant in all other aspects...

[Vic]

Hi,

Thanks for all the feedback. I am taking note.

However the core of the criticism part of your post seems to be:

"you can completely stop an armored thrust by enough some hundred infantry men units with readiness and morale of 30 and lower"

I strongly disagree with this. And designed the combat system to avoid this from happening.

Combat against a small weak unit can be attacked by only part of your force and can be over in 1-3 rounds... causing only 30 AP consumption for your units involved in that battle.

A Panzer Corps properly utilising the officer cards for movement bonus, getting some air + artillery support should be able to slice through any remnant forces as a hot knive through butter.

Feel free to send me a savefile where you think things are unbalanced to vic@vrdesigns.net so I can take a closer look.

Best wishes,
Vic

[steelwarrior]

Hey Vic,

thanks for your answer and your support for the game. Yes these small units cannot steal away the whole speed but a lot of it - 30 action points is a lot if it happens over and over again, plus battle delay and zone of control - also they gain morale and readiness next turn again - so basically hindering any momentum and increasing losses of the attacker. They can slow down the Panzers anmd motorised units a lot - allowing other units to retreat, regain morale and readiness or dig in - slowing down things and increasing losses for the attacker even more. Basically as I tried to explain above they should just be destroyed/surrender instead of being able to delay - if the dice goes bad for up to 4 turns - taking again and again at least 50% of the speed/action points. You could change it as described above or maybe the easiest way would be to give German commanders a "Blitz" card that increases attack power and action points and does not cost that much...so breakthroughs can be done more often...

[ChuckBerger]

Hmmm, not sure I agree with you steelwarrior. I've never had this sort of problem, small units can usually be brushed aside with a single tank or PzGren unit, and feel a historical advance is possible against flawed Allied play (keeping in mind Allied play was very flawed in real life!). Against good Allied play, it's tough to win or keep to a historical schedule in Poland or France, but that's as it should be I think. With bonuses and leader cards properly used, blitzkrieg is definitely possible, even with bad dice.

And bear in mind AP penalties can be reduced by eliminating other units bordering on the "penalty" hex. & The Allies don't have endless units, even if it feels that way sometimes.

In DC3, blitz can feel very hard to achieve against solid double walled Soviet defences. But even here the focused effort of an entire Panzer Armee with full bonuses can achieve remarkable things.