MUST HAVE Japanese planes

[rustysi]

I actually have a spreadsheet (who does not have one that plays Japan lol)

Me, no spread sheets, no tracker, no nutin'.[:D]

But then again I have all of you.[:'(]

[Numdydar]

Then you are a brave soul rustysi [:)]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

... Japan needs quantity and simplified production/research. This makes a huge difference when you get into '44+ as Japan.

I haven't arrived at quite this extreme, but I'm not far from it. A fighter, LB, recon, and transport for both IJN/IJA. Sure then a DB/TB/FP for IJN. But I also keep it simple and I pretty much only research fighters as by '44 nothing else matters that much ... YMMV.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

... Japan needs quantity and simplified production/research. This makes a huge difference when you get into '44+ as Japan.

I haven't arrived at quite this extreme, but I'm not far from it. A fighter, LB, recon, and transport for both IJN/IJA. Sure then a DB/TB/FP for IJN. But I also keep it simple and I pretty much only research fighters as by '44 nothing else matters that much ... YMMV.

They all matter Pax in a PBEM playing for VPs!! [:)]

I'd also argue they do have an impact strategically in the endgame, even the ones arriving late, assuming the factories aren't getting burned down before they can build pools. I know against the AI the tactics and strategy are slightly different, and possible targets and things to defend are more spread out.

The Ki-83 and Frank "r" and Sam and N1K5 are a potent late war combo. If you are skilled/lucky enough to get the J7W1 or Ki-94 in the mix before something like the P-51H comes online then again you have some possible parity.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

... Japan needs quantity and simplified production/research. This makes a huge difference when you get into '44+ as Japan.

I haven't arrived at quite this extreme, but I'm not far from it. A fighter, LB, recon, and transport for both IJN/IJA. Sure then a DB/TB/FP for IJN. But I also keep it simple and I pretty much only research fighters as by '44 nothing else matters that much ... YMMV.

They all matter Pax in a PBEM playing for VPs!! [:)]

I'd also argue they do have an impact strategically in the endgame, even the ones arriving late, assuming the factories aren't getting burned down before they can build pools. I know against the AI the tactics and strategy are slightly different, and possible targets and things to defend are more spread out.

The Ki-83 and Frank "r" and Sam and N1K5 are a potent late war combo. If you are skilled/lucky enough to get the J7W1 or Ki-94 in the mix before something like the P-51H comes online then again you have some possible parity.

Understood. Num's argument and mine as well is pretty simple: multiple airframes make air group management more difficult. You run short of spares on one model because you have a bad day with a couple of groups. If they are all the same model, spares aren't an issue until there are literally no more spares period.

In my play I haven't seen nearly as much difference between similar models as I do in how they are used. Meaning, take your groups, setup your CAP layers, using Sam/George in the layers they are essentially interchangeable. Its more about numbers in each layer than it is airframe type. So, which do I choose to spend my RnD supply on? Depends. Sam is a better plane overall, but even to get it in early '44 is REALLY rough George can be had in early '43 really easy, and George in '43 is a big difference. But that means the KB is hamstrung ... choices. Frank is a lot easier to choose. Sure having 83/94 is always nice. But having Frank in numbers in mid '43 is a big difference. And the 'r' model is generally everyones mainstay no matter what you do.

[obvert]

All good points.

I do like the slight difference between models, and I do build Georges and Jacks and Sam. Since all three use different engines it also helps if your engines are running short or getting burned down. Since I'm always having to rail groups out (on HI, PI, Formosa, China, Korea) to replenish and rotate other groups in, the difference in airframes is useful, not a hindrance. If my Georges got hit hard, maybe the Sam units are the next to rotate in and the George pool can recover a bit.

If I were building a lot more of one maybe my pool would never go down, but I also like the unpredictability of having equally useful but slightly different airframes available. It can make settings really hard to read and predict from the Allied side (if they're actually caring about that and not just setting the firehose on full blast).

Curious to see if the low CAP settings I've been seeing some success with are still useful in this late stage against the Allied best like P-47N and P-51H and late Spits.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

They all matter Pax in a PBEM playing for VPs!! [:)]

Yeah, understood, but I would never play a game for VP's with PDU On. My opinion only, but to me the VP system is based upon historical events and PDU ON distorts it too much. So, PDU ON in PBEM, it would only be did you make it to 4/46? If you are still standing, you won. If the allies own Tokyo/Osaka before that, you lose.

If it is AI, then its more like you need to own most of the capitals (Delhi, Canberra, Aukland, CK, SF), say 4 of 5 would do. Something like that.

That's just me, and since I'm still some years away from being able to play a PBEM ... I'm just a canary in the rooftop. My opinion, and it doesn't matter that much.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

All good points.

I do like the slight difference between models, and I do build Georges and Jacks and Sam. Since all three use different engines it also helps if your engines are running short or getting burned down. Since I'm always having to rail groups out (on HI, PI, Formosa, China, Korea) to replenish and rotate other groups in, the difference in airframes is useful, not a hindrance. If my Georges got hit hard, maybe the Sam units are the next to rotate in and the George pool can recover a bit.

If I were building a lot more of one maybe my pool would never go down, but I also like the unpredictability of having equally useful but slightly different airframes available. It can make settings really hard to read and predict from the Allied side (if they're actually caring about that and not just setting the firehose on full blast).

Curious to see if the low CAP settings I've been seeing some success with are still useful in this late stage against the Allied best like P-47N and P-51H and late Spits.

I know that about you, and truthfully, maybe its one of those things that helps a player get through +3 years of a PBEM game. I don't know about that aspect, and the player psych is a big part. One of those things that I hope to find out about some day ...

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

All good points.

I do like the slight difference between models, and I do build Georges and Jacks and Sam. Since all three use different engines it also helps if your engines are running short or getting burned down. Since I'm always having to rail groups out (on HI, PI, Formosa, China, Korea) to replenish and rotate other groups in, the difference in airframes is useful, not a hindrance. If my Georges got hit hard, maybe the Sam units are the next to rotate in and the George pool can recover a bit.

If I were building a lot more of one maybe my pool would never go down, but I also like the unpredictability of having equally useful but slightly different airframes available. It can make settings really hard to read and predict from the Allied side (if they're actually caring about that and not just setting the firehose on full blast).

Curious to see if the low CAP settings I've been seeing some success with are still useful in this late stage against the Allied best like P-47N and P-51H and late Spits.

I know that about you, and truthfully, maybe its one of those things that helps a player get through +3 years of a PBEM game. I don't know about that aspect, and the player psych is a big part. One of those things that I hope to find out about some day ...

I hope I'm still having time to play PBEM when you do have time to give it a shot. I'd love to see what years of experimenting and iterating with the AI has done for you to refine what works and apply that against an experienced human player.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

All good points.

I do like the slight difference between models, and I do build Georges and Jacks and Sam. Since all three use different engines it also helps if your engines are running short or getting burned down. Since I'm always having to rail groups out (on HI, PI, Formosa, China, Korea) to replenish and rotate other groups in, the difference in airframes is useful, not a hindrance. If my Georges got hit hard, maybe the Sam units are the next to rotate in and the George pool can recover a bit.

If I were building a lot more of one maybe my pool would never go down, but I also like the unpredictability of having equally useful but slightly different airframes available. It can make settings really hard to read and predict from the Allied side (if they're actually caring about that and not just setting the firehose on full blast).

Curious to see if the low CAP settings I've been seeing some success with are still useful in this late stage against the Allied best like P-47N and P-51H and late Spits.

I know that about you, and truthfully, maybe its one of those things that helps a player get through +3 years of a PBEM game. I don't know about that aspect, and the player psych is a big part. One of those things that I hope to find out about some day ...

I hope I'm still having time to play PBEM when you do have time to give it a shot. I'd love to see what years of experimenting and iterating with the AI has done for you to refine what works and apply that against an experienced human player.

Eric,

You will be my 3rd game. Assuming the 1st 2 are still around and that I manage that many more years myself. [8D]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo



I know that about you, and truthfully, maybe its one of those things that helps a player get through +3 years of a PBEM game. I don't know about that aspect, and the player psych is a big part. One of those things that I hope to find out about some day ...

I hope I'm still having time to play PBEM when you do have time to give it a shot. I'd love to see what years of experimenting and iterating with the AI has done for you to refine what works and apply that against an experienced human player.

Eric,

You will be my 3rd game. Assuming the 1st 2 are still around and that I manage that many more years myself. [8D]

Deal! [:)]

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: obvert

All good points.

I do like the slight difference between models, and I do build Georges and Jacks and Sam. Since all three use different engines it also helps if your engines are running short or getting burned down. Since I'm always having to rail groups out (on HI, PI, Formosa, China, Korea) to replenish and rotate other groups in, the difference in airframes is useful, not a hindrance. If my Georges got hit hard, maybe the Sam units are the next to rotate in and the George pool can recover a bit.

If I were building a lot more of one maybe my pool would never go down, but I also like the unpredictability of having equally useful but slightly different airframes available. It can make settings really hard to read and predict from the Allied side (if they're actually caring about that and not just setting the firehose on full blast).

Curious to see if the low CAP settings I've been seeing some success with are still useful in this late stage against the Allied best like P-47N and P-51H and late Spits.

I know that about you, and truthfully, maybe its one of those things that helps a player get through +3 years of a PBEM game. I don't know about that aspect, and the player psych is a big part. One of those things that I hope to find out about some day ...

I hope I'm still having time to play PBEM when you do have time to give it a shot. I'd love to see what years of experimenting and iterating with the AI has done for you to refine what works and apply that against an experienced human player.

It's quite a shock when you play against a competent AFB [:)] Even a not so good player will be hard to handle. The Allies just get soooo much stuff.

Like I said before, when you see a 600+ air strike you know your time has run out [:(]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo



I know that about you, and truthfully, maybe its one of those things that helps a player get through +3 years of a PBEM game. I don't know about that aspect, and the player psych is a big part. One of those things that I hope to find out about some day ...

I hope I'm still having time to play PBEM when you do have time to give it a shot. I'd love to see what years of experimenting and iterating with the AI has done for you to refine what works and apply that against an experienced human player.

It's quite a shock when you play against a competent AFB [:)] Even a not so good player will be hard to handle. The Allies just get soooo much stuff.

Like I said before, when you see a 600+ air strike you know your time has run out [:(]

The days after a big B-29 strike on Tokyo or Osaka watching factories just keep burning and burning ... [:(]

[LargeSlowTarget]

Great prospects... I'm only in April 1943 and already feel the pain from the air.

JFB's should be able to research and build "firefighting equipment" - instead of fancy 3rd-generation fighters which won't make a difference anyway. Or concentrate R&D entirely on "post-war entertainment electronics".

PDU off game - quantity and simplification not really possible, R&D must be spread. My existing fighters (Zero M5, Oscar IIa, Tojo IIb, Tony Ib) are rather ineffective. I have researched the first Jack, but no group currently on the map is able to fly it - R&D wasted. First George group is still filling-out - one against how many P-38 and F4U units? Frank R&D factories repair oh-so-slowly, none has reached the magic 30 yet, although set on Day One. Oh the joys of being a JFB [:D].

[Numdydar]

PDU Off is really interesting [:)] Doubt I'd every play a game again with it Off though.

You need at least some of every plane type to be able to upgrade units.

I was also really surprised at how few non-CV air groups could use Zeros. Definitely over produced those [:(]

You do learn how to use what you have though. Having to use Nates for CAP and escort was really interesting lol.

[scout1]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

To NY59Giants,

From looking at your research, I'd say your biggest mistake so far was playing as Japan [:D]. So quit now and play as the Allies and you will be fine [:)]

All kidding aside, once you get into '44, you will quickly realize that all your planning is pretty much useless. So pick whatever planes you think you will have fun with and do not worry about choosing the 'best'. Because Japan's best is going to do nothing to stop the Allies horde that you will face in '44. Much less '45.

So good luck and enjoy the ride [:)]

Quite true ..... particularly when there is so damn many of them .... and all the pilots are 70+
The game, like history is a stacked deck. The Japanese never realized the game was up once they allowed the Allies to be active adversaries .....

[ny59giants]

bump

[ny59giants]

I've bumped this thread up and want to ask about very late war airframes (45 & 46).

NE turbojet go into Kikka (1-46) and Ki-201 Karyu (3-46).

Toko Rocket goes into J8M1 Shusei (12-45) and Ki-2-2 Shusei (1-46).

Do you use your limited R&D to produce any of these airframes and use up an engine factory to do so?

Any of the other late war 'wonder weapons' to invest R&D in??

[Lokasenna]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I've bumped this thread up and want to ask about very late war airframes (45 & 46).

NE turbojet go into Kikka (1-46) and Ki-201 Karyu (3-46).

Toko Rocket goes into J8M1 Shusei (12-45) and Ki-2-2 Shusei (1-46).

Do you use your limited R&D to produce any of these airframes and use up an engine factory to do so?

Any of the other late war 'wonder weapons' to invest R&D in??

I'm fairly confident that my Ki-201 will see use prior to historical A-bomb dates. I did not both with the other 3 planes.

[Lowpe]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I've bumped this thread up and want to ask about very late war airframes (45 & 46).

NE turbojet go into Kikka (1-46) and Ki-201 Karyu (3-46).

Toko Rocket goes into J8M1 Shusei (12-45) and Ki-2-2 Shusei (1-46).

Do you use your limited R&D to produce any of these airframes and use up an engine factory to do so?

Any of the other late war 'wonder weapons' to invest R&D in??

Shinden is perhaps the best/easiest to get, but the problem is it is a navy fighter.

In a scenario 2 style game you can easily get 1 late war plane early. Ki83, Ki94, Shinden are usually the top choices.

For a scenario 1 style game, the Home Islands are likely being bombed before Jan 1 1945...which means you really have to allocate a lot of r&d (say 10+) to get a 1/46 plane before it gets bombed.

R&D anything past Sam is a real crap shoot in any game. You have the option of moving the r&d facilities that are allocated to Oscar/Zero/Tony lines to a late war plane sometime in mid to late 43 when you know what the game looks like.