Need more Pacific Theater Games

Gamers can also use this forum to chat about any game related subject, news, rumours etc.

Moderator: maddog986

GaryChildress
Posts: 6746
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:41 pm
Location: The Divided Nations of Earth

Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by GaryChildress »

I wish Matrix would create just a few more games focusing on the Pacific theater, including land, sea, and air aspects of the war. I recently bought Strategic Command 3 but it just feels like I've already invaded Poland about a thousand times in countless other games. A Pacific theater based Panzer Corps would be cool.
User avatar
wodin
Posts: 10709
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:13 am
Location: England
Contact:

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by wodin »

The thing is unless a game has sold well and been a success covering the West Front and has Americans in it I think it's seen as to much of a risk developing a new wargame that covers a less mainstream\popular period. Hence the reason why we seem to get a lot of new wargames covering West Front WW2 or maybe East front Barbarossa.

Though if wanting to appeal to the American market I'd say Pacific is a cert..though maybe not as popular outside the States. Pacific has never really appealed to me, I always see it as an American vs Japan war and therefore out of my immediate comfort zone.

More than anything I want to see more WEGO wargames no matter the theatre.

Saying this I still would like to see other periods of the War and other theatres covered rather than D Day or the Bulge or Market garden over and over again.
User avatar
warspite1
Posts: 41896
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: England

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I wish Matrix would create just a few more games focusing on the Pacific theater, including land, sea, and air aspects of the war. I recently bought Strategic Command 3 but it just feels like I've already invaded Poland about a thousand times in countless other games. A Pacific theater based Panzer Corps would be cool.
warspite1

Well to be fair, lovers of the Pacific have at least a couple of titles - which is a couple more than those with an interest in the Mediterranean theatre.....[:(]

That said I think its a crying shame that a really detailed game of Guadalcanal July 1942-January 1943 hasn't been made.

Guadalcanal, like the Mediterranean, is (or should be) a war game makers dream.

- A really interesting period of the war
- Both sides capable of 'winning'
- Unit density not too great thus allowing great detail on land, sea and air
- Despite the relatively small scale there are:
- Amphibious landings
- Land battles
- Air battles
- Carrier battles
- Submarine warfare
- Cruiser/Destroyer actions
- Battleship duels
- Command/control friction - particularly the US
- Re-supply of troops was vital (US by day / Japan by night)

Imagine that done properly!
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
User avatar
jack54
Posts: 1428
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: East Tennessee

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by jack54 »

I'd love to see another WW 2 Pacific... something in between AE and Order of Battle in complexity and scale; where you can assemble Task Forces and the counters represent collections of equipment... Like 2x3 or Ageod.

Totally agree about Guadalcanal. I'd really enjoy that...



Avatar: Me borrowing Albert Ball's Nieuport 17

Counter from Bloody April by Terry Simo (GMT)
User avatar
wodin
Posts: 10709
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:13 am
Location: England
Contact:

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by wodin »

I also have a feeling getting the Naval aspect working right and inline with the island hoping ground side may cause problems and certainly adds a lot to complexity compared to developing a straight forward land battle in Europe or Africa etc.
User avatar
Rising-Sun
Posts: 2141
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:27 am
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Contact:

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by Rising-Sun »

I would like to see that too, or at least War in the Pacific II. Something like Storm over the Pacific, I didn't care for that, it just didn't feel right.

During naval engagement, want to see the formation lines where they engage each others. Usually floatplanes will guide them, unless they get close enough, then radars will play a major roles. Like WitP:AE, you cannot control the ships or fleets, the commanders will have to judge that. Just like watching in 3D battlefields. Aerial combats is slightly different due to altitude then ground battles. The ground battles shouldn't be that hard to do, just special effects. They did well on WitP, just need some improvements to make it even more realistic so you will know what it feel like out there.
Image
User avatar
TulliusDetritus
Posts: 5581
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:49 am
Location: The Zone™

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by TulliusDetritus »

ORIGINAL: warspite1
That said I think its a crying shame that a really detailed game of Guadalcanal July 1942-January 1943 hasn't been made.

Already done. WitP ancestor: Uncommon Valor. Breaking the Bismarcks Barrier in fact. Unless you're thinking about a tactical game (as opposed to operational).

I agree with you about a Mediterranean Game. I understand as a British you are particularly interested.

There is - as I already told you - a WitP mod covering the Mediterranean theatre. And you know WitP is synonymous of utterly detailed. Have you checked it? And here.



Image
Attachments
weathermap1024.jpg
weathermap1024.jpg (267.97 KiB) Viewed 79 times
"Hitler is a horrible sexual degenerate, a dangerous fool" - Mussolini, circa 1934
aaatoysandmore
Posts: 2846
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:35 pm

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by aaatoysandmore »

Let's go back to "why America entered the War" in the first place. It wasn't because Germany attacked us on Dec 7 1941 was it? I too prefer more battles vs Japan than Germany. Germany was Britain and France and Russia's war not ours. I want to play our wars not some others. [:)]

But, developers go where the money is not where the wants of certain fans are. That's the sad truth about gaming mostly. Developers could care less about what we want only what we might buy moreso than the rest.

If only we had dedicated developers for the Pacific War who did it out of love instead of greed. [:)]
User avatar
TulliusDetritus
Posts: 5581
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 1:49 am
Location: The Zone™

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by TulliusDetritus »

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
Let's go back to "why America entered the War" in the first place. It wasn't because Germany attacked us on Dec 7 1941 was it?]

Germany First

The 15% of American resources were allocated to the Pacific. Increased to 30% by the mid of 1942 IIRC.
"Hitler is a horrible sexual degenerate, a dangerous fool" - Mussolini, circa 1934
User avatar
wodin
Posts: 10709
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:13 am
Location: England
Contact:

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by wodin »

Actually it's publishers who dictate

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Let's go back to "why America entered the War" in the first place. It wasn't because Germany attacked us on Dec 7 1941 was it? I too prefer more battles vs Japan than Germany. Germany was Britain and France and Russia's war not ours. I want to play our wars not some others. [:)]

But, developers go where the money is not where the wants of certain fans are. That's the sad truth about gaming mostly. Developers could care less about what we want only what we might buy moreso than the rest.

If only we had dedicated developers for the Pacific War who did it out of love instead of greed. [:)]
User avatar
wings7
Posts: 4586
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:59 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by wings7 »

ORIGINAL: wodin

Actually it's publishers who dictate

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Let's go back to "why America entered the War" in the first place. It wasn't because Germany attacked us on Dec 7 1941 was it? I too prefer more battles vs Japan than Germany. Germany was Britain and France and Russia's war not ours. I want to play our wars not some others. [:)]

But, developers go where the money is not where the wants of certain fans are. That's the sad truth about gaming mostly. Developers could care less about what we want only what we might buy moreso than the rest.

If only we had dedicated developers for the Pacific War who did it out of love instead of greed. [:)]

Not you Jason...did you ever hear of Indie developers...[8|] [>:]
Please come and join and befriend me at the great Steam portal! There are quite a few Matrix/Slitherine players on Steam! My member page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988402427
Alan Sharif
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 8:00 am
Location: UK.
Contact:

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by Alan Sharif »

I must confess, I am not that keen on the naval side, not in great detail anyway. However, I would like to see more detailed, largely land based games on the campaigns in Burma, Malaya and China.
A Sharif
User avatar
warspite1
Posts: 41896
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: England

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus
ORIGINAL: warspite1
That said I think its a crying shame that a really detailed game of Guadalcanal July 1942-January 1943 hasn't been made.

Already done. WitP ancestor: Uncommon Valor. Breaking the Bismarcks Barrier in fact. Unless you're thinking about a tactical game (as opposed to operational).

I agree with you about a Mediterranean Game. I understand as a British you are particularly interested.

There is - as I already told you - a WitP mod covering the Mediterranean theatre. And you know WitP is synonymous of utterly detailed. Have you checked it? And here.



Image
warspite1

As I have said previously, I don't want to play a Med mod of War in the Pacific. Fine game though it is, I don't think the land battles would be depicted well for one thing.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
User avatar
warspite1
Posts: 41896
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: England

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by warspite1 »

[/quote]warspite1
Let's go back to "why America entered the War" in the first place.
Germany was Britain and France and Russia's war not ours. I want to play our wars not some others.


....The declaration of war by Hitler on the USA was what??
Developers could care less about what we want only what we might buy more so than the rest.

Where does this sentence even begin to make sense?

Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
User avatar
Chickenboy
Posts: 24520
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I wish Matrix would create just a few more games focusing on the Pacific theater, including land, sea, and air aspects of the war. I recently bought Strategic Command 3 but it just feels like I've already invaded Poland about a thousand times in countless other games. A Pacific theater based Panzer Corps would be cool.
warspite1

Well to be fair, lovers of the Pacific have at least a couple of titles - which is a couple more than those with an interest in the Mediterranean theatre.....[:(]

That said I think its a crying shame that a really detailed game of Guadalcanal July 1942-January 1943 hasn't been made.

Guadalcanal, like the Mediterranean, is (or should be) a war game makers dream.

- A really interesting period of the war
- Both sides capable of 'winning'
- Unit density not too great thus allowing great detail on land, sea and air
- Despite the relatively small scale there are:
- Amphibious landings
- Land battles
- Air battles
- Carrier battles
- Submarine warfare
- Cruiser/Destroyer actions
- Battleship duels
- Command/control friction - particularly the US
- Re-supply of troops was vital (US by day / Japan by night)

Imagine that done properly!

Have you considered the very well done Guadalcanal scenerio for WiTP:AE? It's very well done and ticks most of the boxes you cite. One could quibble about the nature of land battle resolution I suppose, but it's one of several very nicely done scenarios for those that can't commit for the grand campaign.
Image
User avatar
Chickenboy
Posts: 24520
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:30 pm
Location: San Antonio, TX

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Where does this sentence even begin to make sense?

Bargle Flig Ugga Gak?
Image
User avatar
Hotschi
Posts: 548
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:04 pm
Location: Austria

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by Hotschi »

I'd like to see a WWII Pacific Theatre game wich... actually plays in South East Asia; land, air, and some naval battles, beginning with the Japanese conquest of Malaya and Singapore, then Burma, and then.... some of the way back (with room for a couple what-ifs for all the way back).

A huge map so we'd be able to play the land war properly - just imagine, we could Save Englands Asian Colonies! [:D]
"A big butcher's bill is not necessarily evidence of good tactics"

- Wavell's reply to Churchill, after the latter complained about faint-heartedness, as he discovered that British casualties in the evacuation from Somaliland had been only 260 men.
User avatar
bairdlander2
Posts: 2288
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:25 am
Location: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by bairdlander2 »

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Let's go back to "why America entered the War" in the first place. It wasn't because Germany attacked us on Dec 7 1941
It was Japan that attacked the US fleet at Pearl Harbour,not Germany.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
User avatar
warspite1
Posts: 41896
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: England

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: bairdlander

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Let's go back to "why America entered the War" in the first place. It wasn't because Germany attacked us on Dec 7 1941
It was Japan that attacked the US fleet at Pearl Harbour,not Germany.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor
warspite1

Yeah says you. I have it on good authority it was the Germans - and here's the proof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lT1o0sDwI
Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
User avatar
warspite1
Posts: 41896
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:06 pm
Location: England

RE: Need more Pacific Theater Games

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1
ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I wish Matrix would create just a few more games focusing on the Pacific theater, including land, sea, and air aspects of the war. I recently bought Strategic Command 3 but it just feels like I've already invaded Poland about a thousand times in countless other games. A Pacific theater based Panzer Corps would be cool.
warspite1

Well to be fair, lovers of the Pacific have at least a couple of titles - which is a couple more than those with an interest in the Mediterranean theatre.....[:(]

That said I think its a crying shame that a really detailed game of Guadalcanal July 1942-January 1943 hasn't been made.

Guadalcanal, like the Mediterranean, is (or should be) a war game makers dream.

- A really interesting period of the war
- Both sides capable of 'winning'
- Unit density not too great thus allowing great detail on land, sea and air
- Despite the relatively small scale there are:
- Amphibious landings
- Land battles
- Air battles
- Carrier battles
- Submarine warfare
- Cruiser/Destroyer actions
- Battleship duels
- Command/control friction - particularly the US
- Re-supply of troops was vital (US by day / Japan by night)

Imagine that done properly!

Have you considered the very well done Guadalcanal scenerio for WiTP:AE? It's very well done and ticks most of the boxes you cite. One could quibble about the nature of land battle resolution I suppose, but it's one of several very nicely done scenarios for those that can't commit for the grand campaign.
warspite1

I suspect that WITP-AE have done a more than passable representation of the campaign. I think the problem is that I have never been a fan of playing smaller scenarios of any bigger game. The main reason is that the smaller scenario is often either an out and out training scenario (I did play WITP-AE Coral Sea for that purpose) or, even if not, a compromise on the game actually designed. This is understandable – here the game designers are trying to fit the whole of the Pacific War into a game – and so compromises are required when creating smaller scenarios, whether that be in turn length, supply rules, command and control or even aesthetics like map size.

Guadalcanal (and the Mediterranean war for that matter) is a fascinating subject for a war game but to do it justice (and I mean do it proper justice), it needs to incorporate idiosyncracies of the campaign that are simply not going to be modelled in a larger game e.g. specific Command / Control friction between Fletcher and Turner or Reporting / Communications problems between army / navy (that led to Savo) or the myriad of issues that affected Japanese thinking throughout the war – and were highlighted to such disastrous effect in the Solomons.

I am realist enough to know that such a Guadalcanal or WITM are unlikely ever to see the light of day – but I can keep dreaming [:)]

Now Maitland, now's your time!

Duke of Wellington to 1st Guards Brigade - Waterloo 18 June 1815
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”