Allied AI Routing TF Off-Map (to the UK)

[JoV]

Hiya

I have a query which I haven't been able to find any solution too from searching the forums. Simply, after a naval engagement the Allied AI will often try and send the damaged Task Force to the UK, sending them through the DEI etc. This is despite the Mediterranean being closed, so even if they make it that far, they will then just sit there on the edge of the map.

In my current game the AI is trying to send its carriers from the South Pacific all the way across the map to the UK. I have tried loading up as the AI, sending the Carriers to a friendly base and disbanding them, but this doesn't work; next turn it will just make a new Task Force and try to send them to the UK again.

I have pictures of this, but the forum won't let me upload images yet. Has anybody ever heard of this happening before, and are there any potential solutions? I am using the latest beta patch, and Andy Mac's latest AI. I have actually had this happen to me before in a game I played about two years ago, so not sure where the problem lies exactly....


Any help would be much appreciated [:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: JoV

Hiya

I have a query which I haven't been able to find any solution too from searching the forums. Simply, after a naval engagement the Allied AI will often try and send the damaged Task Force to the UK, sending them through the DEI etc. This is despite the Mediterranean being closed, so even if they make it that far, they will then just sit there on the edge of the map.

In my current game the AI is trying to send its carriers from the South Pacific all the way across the map to the UK. I have tried loading up as the AI, sending the Carriers to a friendly base and disbanding them, but this doesn't work; next turn it will just make a new Task Force and try to send them to the UK again.

I have pictures of this, but the forum won't let me upload images yet. Has anybody ever heard of this happening before, and are there any potential solutions? I am using the latest beta patch, and Andy Mac's latest AI. I have actually had this happen to me before in a game I played about two years ago, so not sure where the problem lies exactly....


Any help would be much appreciated [:D]

I played several AI games as Allies through to 1945-46. Never saw this happen, ever.

[Yaab]

Never seen this either. Which scenario is this? Which map - stock or extended?

[Alfred]

This is definitely not a usual occurrence.  Definitely screenshots are needed but you won't be able to upload them until you have made 10 posts.  In the interim please provide answers to the following.
 
1.  Game date?
 
2.  What is the home port of the AI task forces?  Ships can still get to the UK before 13 May 1943 via CapeTown/Mombassa.
 
3.  What is the AI task force nationality?
 
4.  What type of task force is the affected AI?
 
5.  Do the AI task forces contain any ships scheduled to be withdrawn?
 
6.  What (and in what areas) are the damage levels of ships in the AI task forces?
 
7.  Where on the map are the sufficiently sized repair shipyards able to take the damaged AI ships?
 
8.  How many hexes from
 
(a) the western map edge
(b) the nearest suitable sized on map shipyard
 
did the naval combat occur?
 
Alfred

[JoV]

Thank you for all the replies, I will try and answer as best I can;

1. Nov, 1942. Although this has been occurring since August

2. Home port is set as the United Kingdom, they have orders to take a direct route there.

3. American, although they have been placed under Free French command, probably as they were based out of Noumea. I tried changing their HQ to see if that would fix the problem, but it didn't.

4. First was a surface combat, the second is a air combat

[JoV]

5. That's a good question, i will check. But I do have withdrawals turned off in this scenario, to try and give the AI a hand.

6. The surface combat TF was caught in a naval engagement, so am not sure but likely systems and flotation damage. The carrier TF has suffered no damage whatsoever, but has seen its carrier groups destroyed through constant operations in the Solomons. Perhaps the AI it trying to withdraw it because it has exhausted replacement pools?

7. The AI has all of its starting bases in the Pacific, I've only taken what Japan did historically. So Pearl, West Coast, Australia etc are all available.

8. This has occurred in the Solomons, so approximately one hundred hexes to the east of the western edge of the map, whilst fifty or so from Pearl. I checked Pearl, and it's repair bay is empty.

Am playing on a stock map, with Andy Mac's New Scenario 1, but I have had this problem occur in an earlier game on an earlier build. Since then I have reinstalled the game, all patches etc. If this is a truly unique occurrence, perhaps I have done something wrong with the install...

Many thanks again for all your replies [&o]

Sorry for splitting the post up, the forum kept rejecting it.

[BBfanboy]

You can just change the home port of the TF to PH, and send it there. Also go into the "TF Routing" option and set "Direct/Absolute" to make sure it does not run away from "threats".

[JoV]

Yeah, that's what I have been doing every turn since August. But the next turn it just switches back to sending them to the UK. Even if I babysit them into a friendly port and disband them, the next turn the Task Force will be rebuilt, with orders to return home to the UK.

Thought it was 'manageable', but it keeps happening, and I imagine will only get worse as the game progresses [:D]

[rustysi]

Yeah, I've seen this before. Its happened to me several times. I usually just try to let 'em go, but for me I'm not using the AI as a 'game' in a sense. I just use it to try to learn the game. The last time it happened I was gonna start a new game anyway and I let 'em have it. It was fun watching the Allied carriers die.[:D]

Andy Mac has been working on the AI scripts, and I pop in there from time to time. Someone asked him about this recently, but that's about all I know.

Edit:I believe Andy Mac's thread is titled "I need help". Wish I could help him, but I feel I don't yet know enough to be of value. Also I know I couldn't be there consistently.

[JoV]

I did ask Andy about it, but since it seems to be so rare, thought it was probably a more general issue and so posted in here instead....

I would like a game where the Allies kick my arse from 44' onwards, so am trying to keep its carriers etc alive. Have even contemplated trying to nurse them all the way off the map. They'll just sit there for now, but will come back into play eventually [:D]

But my concern is that the bug (or whatever it is) will just repeat endlessly with new forces as they become available. Am hoping if I can find the root cause I might be able to prevent that...

But am glad, at least, that I am not the only person who has experienced this [:D]

[JoV]

Just a blank post so I can reach the magic ten post mark and hopefully soon post a picture of what's going on [:D]

[JoV]

A piccy of what is happening in my game.



And another of an Allied TF sitting off map, going nowhere anytime soon [:D]



I hold no real hopes of there being a miracle cure for this, in truth I've already started a new game anyway (the May 42 start Andy Mac put together as the Allies, which I have been really impressed with so far), but thought it good to put up some evidence in case anyone else encounters this problem, and perhaps in a new update or whatever this issue might potentially find a solution [&o]

[BBfanboy]

What kind of game are you playing? H2H? You as Allied and AI as Japanese or the reverse? Both sides computer?

And when you installed the new map art files did you also install the new data files for that map mod? Also be advised that if that map mod uses the extended map, that stock scenarios do not use that map and that could confuse the routing for units (the AI can't figure out where things are).

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

What kind of game are you playing? H2H? You as Allied and AI as Japanese or the reverse? Both sides computer?

And when you installed the new map art files did you also install the new data files for that map mod? Also be advised that if that map mod uses the extended map, that stock scenarios do not use that map and that could confuse the routing for units (the AI can't figure out where things are).

It's trying to route through Aden to the UK before the Med opens up. Why he's getting such huge red hex counts.

[GetAssista]

I've seen this happening in my game against Allied AI too. Namely, TF freeze at the edge of the map leading to Aden and company. It was some insignificant minesweepers though, so I dispatched them with carrier air and never noted what was their destination.
If AI does not recognize that Med route is closed at that date, it certainly qualifies as bug

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

I've seen this happening in my game against Allied AI too. Namely, TF freeze at the edge of the map leading to Aden and company. It was some insignificant minesweepers though, so I dispatched them with carrier air and never noted what was their destination.
If AI does not recognize that Med route is closed at that date, it certainly qualifies as bug

It might be the AI, and it might be some devil's brew of AI, and EXE, and pwhex not being installed correctly, and the off-map math algos. Michael would need to look under the hood.

I never had this happen, but I played AI games in pure vanilla stock in the early years. Stock map and stock pwhex.

[dave sindel]

Does the fact that both TF's are under computer control have any bearing ? Did you try switching them to human control and changing the routing ?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: dave sindel

Does the fact that both TF's are under computer control have any bearing ? Did you try switching them to human control and changing the routing ?

He said he did change the home port and left it as human control, but it switched back to UK home port and computer control. Thus my questions about whether it was set "Both Computer" (which might explain the TF reverting to Computer control) and the map situation - which might explain why the AI wants to route the TFs all the way to England when there are closer bases that had been selected manually.

[JoV]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

What kind of game are you playing? H2H? You as Allied and AI as Japanese or the reverse? Both sides computer?

And when you installed the new map art files did you also install the new data files for that map mod? Also be advised that if that map mod uses the extended map, that stock scenarios do not use that map and that could confuse the routing for units (the AI can't figure out where things are).

I am Japan playing as against the AI Allies. I just loaded as the Allies to show what was happening more clearly.

The map is stock, as is the scenario. I have made the mistake of using the extended map in the wrong scenario before, so am very careful to check now [:D]

And yes, you can change the TF over to human control, but the next turn it will just revert back to computer, with the home base set as the UK again. That is how I got the Allied Carriers to Sydney, loaded as the Allies every turn and routed them there and then disbanded them. Next turn, they had been put back into a new TF, with the home base of UK.