WitE 2

Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: The German-Soviet War 1941-1945 is a turn-based World War II strategy game stretching across the entire Eastern Front. Gamers can engage in an epic campaign, including division-sized battles with realistic and historical terrain, weather, orders of battle, logistics and combat results.

The critically and fan-acclaimed Eastern Front mega-game Gary Grigsby’s War in the East just got bigger and better with Gary Grigsby’s War in the East: Don to the Danube! This expansion to the award-winning War in the East comes with a wide array of later war scenarios ranging from short but intense 6 turn bouts like the Battle for Kharkov (1942) to immense 37-turn engagements taking place across multiple nations like Drama on the Danube (Summer 1944 – Spring 1945).

Moderators: Joel Billings, Sabre21, elmo3

Hunter63
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:35 pm

RE: WitE 2

Post by Hunter63 »

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

Just to share a few thoughts following up my posts a couple pages back, after having played a bit more of the latest versions of WitW:

* The logistics and combat engine are now speaking to each other more clearly, and you get quite a fair bit of feedback.
The Torch to Tunisia campaign is a very good testbed for that. Certainly, Lybia is much more bare than Russia west of the Urals, but having limited communications and a much bigger density of forces (like 10 times more) *should* put quite a brake on the tempo of offensive operations, unless significant planning is done and preparation is conducted. I also liked a lot having to make choices of who was getting priority with supplies - there was a real sense of scarcity!

* With the above in place, then certainly, having shorter turns matters less. WitE was a quite deep game,
and WitW (and by extension WitE2) will be an even deeper game.

* The distribution of combat results is way, way less extreme. Or perhaps that's because the experience/morale levels are more even?

* Routing seems to be less extreme as well.

* I think that ground combat assumes that the defending player wants to defend very badly any terrain their units are sitting on.
Perhaps having a setting that allows the player to set the behaviour of his units in such a way that these would attempt to break
contact when facing crazy odds would be a good thing. The losses tolerance threshold of TOAW is perhaps a model for such a thing.
This would go a long way to dispel concerns about the ability of the defending player to setup an elastic defense.
Of course, there needs to be a chance that by trying to retreat things get "worse" for the defender -
that's why elastic defense requires well trained and organised forces.

Just that for now. I am quite impressed by the current state of WitW, even if there's still stuff I don't
really understand regarding air operations.

Seeing you are compairing "WitE was a quite deep game,
and WitW (and by extension WitE2) will be an even deeper game
".and I have some exp playing Pelton in PBeM games stress testing
WitW logistics,air and combat systems I can say

* WitW logistics system from what I have seen on forums and can compare to playing many hours vs Pelton - Pelton has dug much deeper then
anyone by allot.

I very much look forward to playing 2.0 after learning what I have during my beat downs as Germany vs the Pelton's allied horde.

I like your idea about unit behavior, but think it not likely as this will really bog down the AI.

WitW was very laggy aka slow, but has improved. We are talking many more units, supplies, trucks, trains, planes ect ect with 2.0

I would hate to be programming that. 1 bad line in 10,000 can cause many issues or snowball chains - many turns/years later.

I can see why it will take a few yrs to just get the first 12 months to run to say nothing of a full 4 yrs.

Massive project to say the least.

Good Luck 2by3 and best wishes.


User avatar
loki100
Posts: 11699
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:38 pm
Location: Utlima Thule

RE: WitE 2

Post by loki100 »

Hi Pelton
Aurelian
Posts: 4035
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:08 pm

RE: WitE 2

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: loki100

Hi Pelton
[:D]
Watched a documentary on beavers. Best dam documentary I've ever seen.
User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: WitE 2

Post by RedLancer »

Some of you may have noticed that I now have Moderator status on the WitE forum. I have PM'd Hunter63 and made it clear that I won't allow him to act as Pelton by proxy.
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
User avatar
zakblood
Posts: 22728
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19 am

RE: WitE 2

Post by zakblood »

same rules apply to him as everyone else

+1 Red and congrats on the mod badge, suits you[&o][&o][&o]
Windows 11 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 22621) (22621.ni_release.220506-1250)
Aurelian
Posts: 4035
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:08 pm

RE: WitE 2

Post by Aurelian »

ORIGINAL: zakblood

same rules apply to him as everyone else

+1 Red and congrats on the mod badge, suits you[&o][&o][&o]

It does.
Watched a documentary on beavers. Best dam documentary I've ever seen.
User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: WitE 2

Post by RedLancer »

You're so kind. Maybe I need a new avatar. This looks inspirational....

Image
Attachments
Judge.jpg
Judge.jpg (52.11 KiB) Viewed 65 times
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
User avatar
zakblood
Posts: 22728
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19 am

RE: WitE 2

Post by zakblood »

yes, looks good, now one for me [8D][;)]

[&o][&o][&o]
Windows 11 Pro 64-bit (10.0, Build 22621) (22621.ni_release.220506-1250)
Confusedesh
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:54 pm

RE: WitE 2

Post by Confusedesh »

For those interested I got WitW to see if I could create a map for WitE2, I tend to prefer a more map like and stylised appearance.

Progress so far.
Image
Map with Light mud effect (West) and Heavy mud effect (East).

Image

Image


Northern Italy summer.

Image


So many things you can do and so many tweaks to get things right but I am happy so far with the direction.


More detail.
Image
Image
User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: WitE 2

Post by RedLancer »

Very nice have you changed the bocage and polder art too?
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
Confusedesh
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:54 pm

RE: WitE 2

Post by Confusedesh »

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

Very nice have you changed the bocage and polder art too?


Had a look at changing the Bocage but nothing worked better then what is there already but as I gradually change things I will have a look again.

At present I am going to try and get an overall appearance then later I can add new elements to enhance the appearance so for example I should be able to change some of the stylised woods and forests to turn in part brown when the mud arrives in autumn.



Decided to try a quick look at the trees turning brown of course they are tied to the mud rather then the season but adds another indicator that there is heavy mud in a hex.

Image

Image
User avatar
comte
Posts: 2373
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:12 am
Location: Be'eri, Hadarom, Israel

RE: WitE 2

Post by comte »

These are some really nice maps. Any plans for a release?
Confusedesh
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:54 pm

RE: WitE 2

Post by Confusedesh »

ORIGINAL: Aces8

These are some really nice maps. Any plans for a release?

My intention is to have it for WitE2 so I am really really taking my time but I will at some stage

upload it for WitW which I have not even played yet.
User avatar
robinsa
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:00 am
Location: North Carolina

RE: WitE 2

Post by robinsa »

Thanks for doing this and I hope it works out well in the end. The current WITW/WITE2 map is a deal breaker for me. It makes my head hurt if I play the game for more than 30 min. It is too cluttered and the hexes look all the same which tiers my brain and make the game close to unplayable for extended periods.

Its not like these hex based games are super heavy on the computer anyway so I do not get why they decided to go with this ugly map. Aesthetics is an area where the game is actually lacking and not an area to be scaled back for something (performance) that shouldn't be a problem for most users anyway. If performance is a problem for many users its the coding not the map that needs to be addressed. In this sense I truly feel that WITW/WITE2 is a downgrade from WITE or WITPAE. It used to be that these game were 10-15 times year behind in terms of graphics but this one is more like 20-25.

Other than this, I look forward to the game and I hope this is solved in some way. Either through fan contributions like this (which I am very grateful for) or by some official patch.
wktr8222
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:14 am

RE: WitE 2

Post by wktr8222 »

Hey, I work in Przasnysz!!
User avatar
RedLancer
Posts: 4338
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:09 am
Location: UK

RE: WitE 2

Post by RedLancer »

ORIGINAL: robinsa

Its not like these hex based games are super heavy on the computer anyway so I do not get why they decided to go with this ugly map. Aesthetics is an area where the game is actually lacking and not an area to be scaled back for something (performance) that shouldn't be a problem for most users anyway. If performance is a problem for many users its the coding not the map that needs to be addressed. In this sense I truly feel that WITW/WITE2 is a downgrade from WITE or WITPAE. It used to be that these game were 10-15 times year behind in terms of graphics but this one is more like 20-25.

The WitW/E2 map design was chosen to retain the style of the original WitE map. I'm sorry you don't like it. The maps are created in completely different ways for very good reasons. WitE uses slower tableaus and WitW/E2 uses a mosaic. Going to a mosaic allows us to 'use' processing power elsewhere as it is less performance hungry. It also allows us to keep amending the map all the way through development - moving a town here and adding a rail line there. So far in WitE2 development I have made hundreds of map changes to improve accuracy. These would have been impossible with a tableau.

There have been a number of processing improvements in recent code changes for WitW/WitE2 as the improved logistic system requires significant resource and probably more than you imagine.
John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev
User avatar
robinsa
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:00 am
Location: North Carolina

RE: WitE 2

Post by robinsa »

I understand you reasons for using the new map. Sorry for using the word ugly. That's not actually what I meant. The artwork itself is not bad per se. What I mean is that the repetitive nature of the map becomes tiresome and the map feels extremely sterile. I liked the original WITE map and the modded WITE/WITPAE maps because they had a lot of personality. Each region felt different due to the different color schemes and tones (I am no artist so I can only describe my experience). I don't get that feeling with the WITW map. In fact I would have trouble distinguishing one area from another unless there are some very distinctive geological features. I imagine the WITE map will have even less personality due to the amount of open land.
User avatar
morvael
Posts: 11763
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:19 am
Location: Poland

RE: WitE 2

Post by morvael »

Maybe there just should be more variants of hex interiors, so they would be less repetetive? Coasts and rivers are fine.
User avatar
EwaldvonKleist
Posts: 2374
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:58 pm
Location: Berlin, Germany

RE: WitE 2

Post by EwaldvonKleist »

ORIGINAL: robinsa

Thanks for doing this and I hope it works out well in the end. The current WITW/WITE2 map is a deal breaker for me. It makes my head hurt if I play the game for more than 30 min. It is too cluttered and the hexes look all the same which tiers my brain and make the game close to unplayable for extended periods.

Its not like these hex based games are super heavy on the computer anyway so I do not get why they decided to go with this ugly map. Aesthetics is an area where the game is actually lacking and not an area to be scaled back for something (performance) that shouldn't be a problem for most users anyway. If performance is a problem for many users its the coding not the map that needs to be addressed. In this sense I truly feel that WITW/WITE2 is a downgrade from WITE or WITPAE. It used to be that these game were 10-15 times year behind in terms of graphics but this one is more like 20-25.

Other than this, I look forward to the game and I hope this is solved in some way. Either through fan contributions like this (which I am very grateful for) or by some official patch.

WITE 1 10 years behind in terms of graphics? The underlying map is very beautiful and the benchmark for everything else. It's a pleasure to look at it, it provides all necessary information regarding the terrain, but is not overloaded with eye candy.

Compared to this, the mosaic tiles are ugly. But if I have to choose, I prefer good game mechanics over good graphics.

WITE 2 engine + WITE 1 map=WITE 3?????
User avatar
robinsa
Posts: 173
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:00 am
Location: North Carolina

RE: WitE 2

Post by robinsa »

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

ORIGINAL: robinsa

Thanks for doing this and I hope it works out well in the end. The current WITW/WITE2 map is a deal breaker for me. It makes my head hurt if I play the game for more than 30 min. It is too cluttered and the hexes look all the same which tiers my brain and make the game close to unplayable for extended periods.

Its not like these hex based games are super heavy on the computer anyway so I do not get why they decided to go with this ugly map. Aesthetics is an area where the game is actually lacking and not an area to be scaled back for something (performance) that shouldn't be a problem for most users anyway. If performance is a problem for many users its the coding not the map that needs to be addressed. In this sense I truly feel that WITW/WITE2 is a downgrade from WITE or WITPAE. It used to be that these game were 10-15 times year behind in terms of graphics but this one is more like 20-25.

Other than this, I look forward to the game and I hope this is solved in some way. Either through fan contributions like this (which I am very grateful for) or by some official patch.

WITE 1 10 years behind in terms of graphics? The underlying map is very beautiful and the benchmark for everything else. It's a pleasure to look at it, it provides all necessary information regarding the terrain, but is not overloaded with eye candy.

Compared to this, the mosaic tiles are ugly. But if I have to choose, I prefer good game mechanics over good graphics.

WITE 2 engine + WITE 1 map=WITE 3?????
I expressed myself poorly from the very start yesterday. I lacked sleep and was irritated which resulted in a bad tone. I know this isn't the forum to vent my anger but that's what happened. Sorry if anyone was offended.

The graphics might not be dated but that's not the point. My point is that I don't like the map. I find it hard to get immersed in and I also find that it tiers my brain in a way the original map did not.

I agree with you that the mechanics are superior to the older game and that it likely will be a better game overall than its predecessor.
Post Reply

Return to “Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series”