WW2 Essay: Germany in Defeat

[davewolf]

Originally posted by Trigger1027
I have to complete an essay on Germany in Defeat (WW2) and I need 3 reasons why that began to lose and lost and 3 events that contributed to their loss.

Why Germany lost?

To second P. Kennedy, since there was no serious hope (besides delusions) to lead (and win) a "World Blitzkrieg" - How to conquer Russia (or even the US) in a few months? - it ended up in an attritional lengthy coalition war. And such wars are always won by the side being superior in numbers of men and material. Guess which side that was?

Events?

How about 9/1/39 (beginning of the war)?

They would only have had a chance with very limited goals (like say reconquest of the 'corridor'). Not realistic with Hitler in charge...


Just my 2 Euro cents...

[Trigger1027]

Thanks to everyone who posted. I used the following reasons/events to complete the essay and ended up with 1 266 words of disgust at Hitler's personal meddling. The thesis was "Hitler's personal meddling into everything majorly contributed to the defeat of Germany."
I have yet to receive a mark but I will post it with the complete essay when I receive the mark.
REASONS:

• Germany was never fully mobilized for war until 1943
• Germany wasted resources
• Allied bombing campiagns
• Hitler's personal meddling into tactical affairs

EVENTS:

• Stalingrad Defeat
• Operation Overlord

Again, I express my thanks for everyone who suggested any topics.
Thanks,
Trigger1027

[Belisarius]

May I add another event?

* The failure to seize Moscow in November -41. If Moscow had fallen, the psychological impact had been tremendous on the Soviet people. Also, Moscow was/is a logstical and adminstrative hub - losing those functions would have been devastating.



Personally, I don't think Dunkirk was that important to the outcome of the war. The major part of the British Army's equipment was lost anyway and could not be replaced for a long time. The rescue of 300.000 men could have proven decisive if Operation Sealion had been realized, but they still lacked armor.

[Mad Cow]

Originally posted by Trigger1027
I have to complete an essay on Germany in Defeat (WW2) and I need 3 reasons why that began to lose and lost and 3 events that contributed to their loss.
So far I have:
Reasons:
-Allied air support
Events:
-Operation Overlord
-Operation Market Garden
-Cherbourg
-Caen
-Liberation of Paris

Trigger1027

Look East, young man...

[Mad Cow]

Originally posted by Trigger1027
Thanks to everyone who posted. I used the following reasons/events to complete the essay and ended up with 1 266 words of disgust at Hitler's personal meddling. The thesis was "Hitler's personal meddling into everything majorly contributed to the defeat of Germany."
I have yet to receive a mark but I will post it with the complete essay when I receive the mark.
REASONS:

• Germany was never fully mobilized for war until 1943
• Germany wasted resources
• Allied bombing campiagns
• Hitler's personal meddling into tactical affairs

EVENTS:

• Stalingrad Defeat
• Operation Overlord

Again, I express my thanks for everyone who suggested any topics.
Thanks,
Trigger1027

Why don't you post the essay as an attachment?

[Fallschirmjager]

When ever I talked to my uncle (German paratrooper) he told me Stalingrad was the crushing blow of the war

[Mad Cow]

Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
When ever I talked to my uncle (German paratrooper) he told me Stalingrad was the crushing blow of the war

No doubt. The Germans lost an entire Army which they could certainly not afford to lose.

They still could have possibly won after that. But I think they would have needed a status quo peace with the US and Britain to be able to do anything againstthe Soviets.

[Trigger1027]

due to popular demand, Here is the final version of the essay
drum roll please....

[Mad Cow]

Originally posted by Trigger1027
due to popular demand, Here is the final version of the essay
drum roll please....

Sweet! I will let you know what i think...

[SLAAKMAN]

Very interesting and to the point Trigger. I hope you get an "A" on your report. I would add another significant event that contributed to the downfall of the axis and that would be to point out the critical significance of Hitlers decision before the Munich Conference. When Hitler decided not to seek a solid alliance with Britain and created the Axis with Italy, he spelled his own doom. That decision decided his fate more than any other.

I would also point out that as in all wars the outcome could have been dramatically altered if the Germans had actually decided to use the nerve agent, "Tabun" and Japan had deployed their bioweapons. The allies had no defense against Tabun and the losses on the Russian front might have been staggering. Dropping the atomic bomb was wreckless also since Japanese retaliation using biological warfare against China and Russia wouldve resulted in millions of allied deaths. Forutunately by that point the axis was so exhausted physically and emotionally that a resolve to escalate the war to this point was no longer present.

[some guy]

The essay is done, but the thread lives on...

IMO, the overarching reason that the Germans could not have run is that their entire system was based on a lie. Forget the other stuff, that's just details.

Some people touched on this... if the Nazis had not persecuted the Jews, or the Ukrainians, or attacked Russia... but then, they wouldn't have been Nazis, would they have? They attacked Russia because they believed that the Russians actually were inherently inferior. (And because, being Nazis, they were aggressive and imperialistic by nature.) They allowed themselves to be sucked into war with the USA because they believed that the USA was weak because it was "half Judiazed, half Negrified" (Hitler) and that that was that important truth, not the size of the US industrial and military potential.

But of course, all that was a lie. Almost everything they did was a mistake, because it was based on a false view of reality. If they hadn't made the mistakes they had made, they would have made other mistakes.

Beyond all that... there is interesting question of to what extent, if any, Hitler wanted to be defeated. Naturally, we are talking about levels far below his conscious awareness. He was an emotionally sick person really, and on a certain level, life must have been unbearable to him. You could certainly not describe him as a "happy" person. He may or may not have "known" that he was evil... but on some deep level, there must have been a part of him that did know that something was wrong. e3

[davewolf]

Originally posted by some guy
The essay is done, but the thread lives on...

IMO, the overarching reason that the Germans could not have run is that their entire system was based on a lie. Forget the other stuff, that's just details.

Some people touched on this... if the Nazis had not persecuted the Jews, or the Ukrainians, or attacked Russia... but then, they wouldn't have been Nazis, would they have? They attacked Russia because they believed that the Russians actually were inherently inferior. (And because, being Nazis, they were aggressive and imperialistic by nature.) They allowed themselves to be sucked into war with the USA because they believed that the USA was weak because it was "half Judiazed, half Negrified" (Hitler) and that that was that important truth, not the size of the US industrial and military potential.

But of course, all that was a lie. Almost everything they did was a mistake, because it was based on a false view of reality. If they hadn't made the mistakes they had made, they would have made other mistakes.

Beyond all that... there is interesting question of to what extent, if any, Hitler wanted to be defeated. Naturally, we are talking about levels far below his conscious awareness. He was an emotionally sick person really, and on a certain level, life must have been unbearable to him. You could certainly not describe him as a "happy" person. He may or may not have "known" that he was evil... but on some deep level, there must have been a part of him that did know that something was wrong. e3

Good points, some guy.

Especially the last one is usually being undersetimatd IMO.

I think he was a potential suicide. Just consider that he actually basically was succuessfull. He became the "Führer" of the Reich annexed Austria, Czechia, defeated Poland, Denmark, Norway and France in almost no time. But he didn't try to consolidate the Reich and secure its survival. My assumption is that he unconsciously didn't want to win.

[SLAAKMAN]

Someguy- That is a very astute analysis you've made there. Unfortunately the insane dont know or most of the time even care about the difference between truth and falsehood. Hitlers case was that of a classic paretic (www.kimel.net/hitman.html) and his disease decided the fate of many similar to Caligula's mania determined the outcome of his rule. Since mental conditions are so difficult to diagnose and to allow an insane person to assume positions of power is potentially catastrophic, perhaps we need a seperate committee to oversee the removal of lunatics around the world whenever they maneuver themselves into positions of authority. I shall call this new entitity; SPECTRE. (hehe):eek:
SLAAKMAN

[jamo262]

What about Ultra? The allies reading all the German codes.
The Germans going into Russia as oppressors not liberators lost them a lot of manpower as well.
How about an armed force and economy predicated upon winning a quick war by manouver finding its self forced into a war of attrition?
hope you find these useful

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Ultra is a tricky answer.

Yes the allies were able to read their messages, but they were also unable to exploit it routinely lest they tip their hand that they were.

Plus, by the time Ultra was able to actually give information of merit, Germany's future was already mostly in the bag as it were.

[brucertx]

While there is no one determing factor, I think that a large one is production. Hitler never put the German economy on a full war time footing. If you look at production it's staggering.
While the US, UK, and USSR ramped up their their economies to full war footing, Germany, after the fall of France, actually reduced the production of war material.
Another item of note, women became a major factor in the Allied war economies. Germany never utilized this resource. While employment figures look high for German women, that statistic reflect jobs of the domestic variety.

[Sniperdoc]

Originally posted by some guy
IMO, the overarching reason that the Germans could not have run is that their entire system was based on a lie. Forget the other stuff, that's just details.

If it's just details then why not explain the finer points of the system. It's apparant that you seem to know a lot about it, so why not humor the public and explain the system?

Some people touched on this... if the Nazis had not persecuted the Jews, or the Ukrainians, or attacked Russia... but then, they wouldn't have been Nazis, would they have?

Explain to me what defines a NAZI.

They attacked Russia because they believed that the Russians actually were inherently inferior. (And because, being Nazis, they were aggressive and imperialistic by nature.)

Oh yeah, I forgot, that's what the NAZI party was about imperialism... Where did you study again?

They allowed themselves to be sucked into war with the USA because they believed that the USA was weak because it was "half Judiazed, half Negrified" (Hitler) and that that was that important truth, not the size of the US industrial and military potential.

Right... sucked into the war with the US and how was it, that they allowed themselves to be "sucked" into the war? Do you even know how the US got involved and what the United State's stance on WW2 was?

But of course, all that was a lie. Almost everything they did was a mistake, because it was based on a false view of reality. If they hadn't made the mistakes they had made, they would have made other mistakes.

Woah... whats with all this "lies and deception" stuff...?

Beyond all that... there is interesting question of to what extent, if any, Hitler wanted to be defeated. Naturally, we are talking about levels far below his conscious awareness. He was an emotionally sick person really, and on a certain level, life must have been unbearable to him. You could certainly not describe him as a "happy" person. He may or may not have "known" that he was evil... but on some deep level, there must have been a part of him that did know that something was wrong.

How many biographies of his have you read? "Wanted to be defeated..." LAFF!!!

Explain to me what effect Hitler had on the Weimar Republic, and what he accomplished through that effect. If you don't manage to explain this simple little detail in the birth of the NSDAP, step off your soap box and try to sound unintelligent elsewhere.

[Belisarius]

Thanks, Sniperdoc. You saved me a lot of effort, there.

The reason Germany attacked the Soviet Union in 1941 is basically that conflict was not avoidable. There are a few reasons as to why the situation looked like it did. Keep in mind here that we're talking about two totalitarian, aggressive states with similar ambitions for primacy in Europe. If you are familiar with the policy concept of realism, you know what I'm talking about.

1) The Red Army was in disarray after Stalin's execution of officers in the 1930's. Stalin was well aware of this fact, the Red Army had no chance of defeating the Wehrmacht in the late '30s.

2) The Molotov-Ribbentrop act was not an effort to secure peace. It served both sides, as the Germans secured their back and supplies, while the Russians got an assurance not to be attacked for the while being.

3) So why didn't Russia attack Germany in 1940 while they were occupied in the west? Because Stalin thought the power situation was tri-polar in Europe! He counted on a war of attrition in the west between Germany and Britain-France. After the German army had exhausted itself, he meant to move the Red Army into central Europe. There was to be no exhaustion of Germany's war machine. As it turned out, the European power map only held two powers - Germany and the Soviet Union.

To say that Germany attacked Russia due to ideological reasoning that the Russians were inferior is to entirely overlook how states act on the international arena. :rolleyes:

The idologies of nazism did help though, in boosting morale in the Army as well as legitimizing the war to the people. (Hey, it's a "good" war....please state a regime that does not use this cause). And ofcourse, there's no denying that the nazi ideology was a major contribution to the atrocities in the east.

[Sniperdoc]

I just can't stand it when people talk about that era like they know everything and NAZIs are the anti-christ... etc etc... only an exceptional few understand that time period and are able to fathom the power of the word back in those days. Especially in Germany in the 1920s.

You have the majority of people, where all they watch is the documentaries about all the atrocities during that timeframe, and they don't GET/UNDERSTAND the cause/reasons things were done. By no means do I condone the atrocities of the upper echelon NAZI regime. But, I don't look badly upon the NAZI party. Those days are extremely hard for ANYONE to understand. Unless you were born in 1910, and lived through that era, you'll never understand completely what the German people had gone through, and what the rest of the European nations had to experience.

To be able to take a step back and understand why things like that happened, takes a broadminded person, not some of the backwater, living in their bunker waiting for WWIV, country folk, who think they are historians cause they watch the Discovery Channel and TLC.

[SLAAKMAN]

SNIPERDOC SO IDIGNANTLY REMARKED;

"By no means do I condone the atrocities of the upper echelon NAZI regime. But, I don't look badly upon the NAZI party. Those days are extremely hard for ANYONE to understand. Unless you were born in 1910, and lived through that era, you'll never understand completely what the German people had gone through, and what the rest of the European nations had to experience."

DOC Youre warped out in the stratosphere somewhere. Someguys analysis is considerably accurate since it takes into account the cognitive dissonance people accept that comes with the self-deluding duplicity associated with half-truths and the Big Lie. The concept of the Nazi party was to combine racism (nationalism) and socialism (totalitarianism) into one unit. Its true that people who didnt live through World War 1 and the upheaval of the depression cant fully empathize with the desperation and frustration of those times but what is most alarming and unacceptable to Christian civilization is the fact that tyrranical forms of paganism similar to ancient Rome were fused right into the brainwashing system
of the inner circle (SS) of the Nazi party and gave them a mystical source to justify their extreme cruelty. The heinous hatrid, xenophobia and disdain for anyone not considered consistent with Aryan genetics was a distinctly Austrian/Bavarian atheist concept and an affront to German Christanity as a whole. It is true that people feared bolshevism more at the time and this gave momentum to the Nazi political campaign to win votes but in the end they were just as diabolical as the Bolsheviks. I have relatives that fought on both sides during the war and for so many americans to be soft on the Nazi party to me is an absolute outrage!! The fact that Hitler and his thugs allowed my beloved Germany to go to war with the west at a time when a monster like Joseph Stalin controlled the Russian empire is not acceptable and only further condemns the excuse that central european politics were too desperate to prevent it. I hope this helps people to understand.
SLAAK