Waffen SS ?

[kirk23]

So far I have not seen any Waffen SS units in the game, will they be making an appearance on the map in any shape or form?

[BillRunacre]

There is no specific unit type called Waffen SS so they don't make an appearance as such. There is however nothing stopping those wanting to see Waffen SS units in the game from renaming units accordingly.

[IckieStickie]

Sorry if i don't get it,but why have you not included SS Troops?Is this just a Whermacht Army?Surely not?Just re-editing isnt going to cut it,if they still look exactly the same as the whermacht units.I'm actually dreading your reply now as ive been really looking forwards to this game for such along time.

[taffjones]

It might be something to do with the law's in Germany about Nazi symbols. By having SS units the game may not be able to be sold in Germany?
Panzer Corps got around the problem by introducing SE (Special Elite) units with Camo skins and slightly improved stat's, compared to regular units.
But this is just a guess based on a discussion on this subject on the Panzer Corps forum over on Slitherine.

[ILCK]

I was wondering if this was a way to not have "Nazi" units in the game. They would, in practice I guess, work much like the Russian Shock armies.

[Rosseau]

SC2 Assault on Communism had a separate unit type dubbed Waffen SS.

[Franciscus]

This does not make any sense ! Specially after DC:Barbarossa that not only has waffen SS units on map but was even capable of depicting in an adult, elegant way, the so called "dirty war".

I think now I will pass this game, unfortunately [:-]

[BillRunacre]

Just to be a bit clearer, there are units within the game, e.g. the Florian Geyer Cavalry Division and Special Forces units that represent what were in real life SS units.

These can be deployed within their relevant unit types, but we don't use the SS acronym as their presence in the game isn't to everyone's taste.

[ILCK]

I can understand this is a sensitive issue. I know I can rename any formation from what I have seen but would I be able to create a new German unit type that would simulate the added strength the Waffen units had?

[sPzAbt653]

I think now I will pass this game

Don't throw the baby out with the bath water ! And don't move to Canada because Trump is President !

The unit counters are easily renamed to whatever you want right in the game. For an OOB OCD person like me, this is an awesome feature ! So you can make the entire Wehrmacht Waffen SS if you like. The counters themselves don't need to look different, but if you so desire this aspect is mod-able in the editor.

So for the price of admission you can have the bath, the water, the baby and the Trump ! SC3 is awesome !!

[Ironclad]

Its not a game changer for me, the game looks great and I'm still planning to get it on release but it does seem weird not to have SS units (including enhanced combat capability as appropriate). I do hope this isn't influenced by present day sensitivities or legal/commercial considerations applicable in Germany as that shouldn't dictate what's available in the UK/USA and other countries.

If there is a demand amongst players and I suspect there would be for the inclusion of such units perhaps Matrix/Slitherine and the Development team can have a rethink and perhaps introduce them along with Soviet Guard units (if not present now) in a future update as has been done for CEAW/Grand Strategy.

[Rosseau]

Again, the Waffen SS played a large role in the SC2 Assault on Communism design. This is circa 2011-2012, I believe. Since then, if any country's law prohibited use of that label, it is understandable it is deleted in the official release, just to ensure all customers can buy the game. Plus, as said above, you can edit to your heart's content.

If the SS was removed due to the increased "sensitivities" of our politically correct but morally corrupt society, then I would object. Should we block out the SS insignia we may see in an old B/W WW2 film clip, when the most debased and violent behaviors are readily available to view on TV and the internet?

[bo]

I could not have said it better rosseau, but I could care less whether the SS units are in the game or not, from a game standpoint it would have been nice if they had been included not just in name but maybe the counter could have been in black. History is history, and those units were part of history and history cannot be changed or altered [;)]

From Matrix's standpoint money is the issue as it should be, [:(] and if they had put SS units in the game and it bothered politically correct people in the US and Germany. Oh well!

Do what they did at the University of Penn, with each game sold, hand out puppies and coloring books to people who disagreed with putting these units in the game, like they did with students who did not like the outcome of the US election [;)]

What is dreadful is that these students who need a safe place and space are someday going to run this country, thank the lord because of my age I will not have to be here to see these idiots ruin my country.

Bo

[kirk23]

The reason I asked about Waffen SS units in the game,was mainly because I like the BLACK counters that most games use to represent the SS forces,I might be wrong but I believe there were roundabout 38 SS Panzer Divisions.[;)]

I suppose I will just have to add them via the editor.[:)]

[bo]

It was an excellent question and it should have been asked kirk.

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

Just to be a bit clearer, there are units within the game, e.g. the Florian Geyer Cavalry Division and Special Forces units that represent what were in real life SS units.

These can be deployed within their relevant unit types, but we don't use the SS acronym as their presence in the game isn't to everyone's taste.

Sorry Bill, not trying to be argumenative but I could care less about anyone's feelings or their taste, only because the SS divisions are etched in history books and history cannot be changed or altered.

Bo

[warspite1]

Well this is a pretty depressing thread.

Matrix is an important company in the computer games market for the simple reason that they publish serious wargames that the more mainstream companies do not cater for. There is a mix of games – from Grognard to easier levels – to no doubt broaden the appeal, but I thought the serious wargamer remains the focus.

As such, I am at a total loss here. A total loss.

Why would the appearance of, for example, the 2nd SS Panzer Corps on the Eastern Front or the 1st SS Panzer Corps in Normandy ‘not be to the taste’ of the sort of person that would play this game? This makes no sense. How does the thought process work? Yes I would really like to play a World War II game, but I don’t want to see any nastiness, because that would upset me too much. I mean circa 50m people died, there was wholesale slaughter of prisoners, genocide, millions died of starvation, atomic bombing, fire bombing, unrestricted submarine warfare resulting in the drowning of women and children, you name it – it was carried out. That’s all fine, I just hope they don’t show an SS unit!

As rosseau said, if you do not include something in order to comply with laws e.g. the Swastika, that is one thing, but to unilaterally decide that key units of the German Army cannot be shown in a serious World War II game is beyond belief.

Where does it end? At what point do wargames stop mentioning Hitler altogether? It cannot be far away. And once you go down that route, isn’t it unfair to mention the Germans? I mean think about it. You won’t mention the SS because they were ‘nasty people who did nasty things’. So what about Hitler? What about Tojo? What about Stalin? If you think the Waffen SS alone did ‘nasty things’ then what about the regular army troops and their actions on the Eastern Front? On the basis that the SS are not shown, I trust you will not be including submarines? I don’t want to see any Japanese troops in China, I hope V-weapons and 4-engined bombers are not present either.

This is a very sad development – and for a supposedly serious publisher – a very worrying one.

[Franciscus]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well this is a pretty depressing thread.

Matrix is an important company in the computer games market for the simple reason that they publish serious wargames that the more mainstream companies do not cater for. There is a mix of games – from Grognard to easier levels – to no doubt broaden the appeal, but I thought the serious wargamer remains the focus.

As such, I am at a total loss here. A total loss.

Why would the appearance of, for example, the 2nd SS Panzer Corps on the Eastern Front or the 1st SS Panzer Corps in Normandy ‘not be to the taste’ of the sort of person that would play this game? This makes no sense. How does the thought process work? Yes I would really like to play a World War II game, but I don’t want to see any nastiness, because that would upset me too much. I mean circa 50m people died, there was wholesale slaughter of prisoners, genocide, millions died of starvation, atomic bombing, fire bombing, unrestricted submarine warfare resulting in the drowning of women and children, you name it – it was carried out. That’s all fine, I just hope they don’t show an SS unit!

As rosseau said, if you do not include something in order to comply with laws e.g. the Swastika, that is one thing, but to unilaterally decide that key units of the German Army cannot be shown in a serious World War II game is beyond belief.

Where does it end? At what point do wargames stop mentioning Hitler altogether? It cannot be far away. And once you go down that route, isn’t it unfair to mention the Germans? I mean think about it. You won’t mention the SS because they were ‘nasty people who did nasty things’. So what about Hitler? What about Tojo? What about Stalin? If you think the Waffen SS alone did ‘nasty things’ then what about the regular army troops and their actions on the Eastern Front? On the basis that the SS are not shown, I trust you will not be including submarines? I don’t want to see any Japanese troops in China, I hope V-weapons and 4-engined bombers are not present either.

This is a very sad development – and for a supposedly serious publisher – a very worrying one.

+ 1

Only I am not sure it's Matrix (publisher) fault...I mean, a year ago they published to deserved acclaim DC:B, where we have decisions involving actions of einzatsgruppen !

This is probably a designer's choice - a very poor one, IMHO

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Franciscus

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well this is a pretty depressing thread.

Matrix is an important company in the computer games market for the simple reason that they publish serious wargames that the more mainstream companies do not cater for. There is a mix of games – from Grognard to easier levels – to no doubt broaden the appeal, but I thought the serious wargamer remains the focus.

As such, I am at a total loss here. A total loss.

Why would the appearance of, for example, the 2nd SS Panzer Corps on the Eastern Front or the 1st SS Panzer Corps in Normandy ‘not be to the taste’ of the sort of person that would play this game? This makes no sense. How does the thought process work? Yes I would really like to play a World War II game, but I don’t want to see any nastiness, because that would upset me too much. I mean circa 50m people died, there was wholesale slaughter of prisoners, genocide, millions died of starvation, atomic bombing, fire bombing, unrestricted submarine warfare resulting in the drowning of women and children, you name it – it was carried out. That’s all fine, I just hope they don’t show an SS unit!

As rosseau said, if you do not include something in order to comply with laws e.g. the Swastika, that is one thing, but to unilaterally decide that key units of the German Army cannot be shown in a serious World War II game is beyond belief.

Where does it end? At what point do wargames stop mentioning Hitler altogether? It cannot be far away. And once you go down that route, isn’t it unfair to mention the Germans? I mean think about it. You won’t mention the SS because they were ‘nasty people who did nasty things’. So what about Hitler? What about Tojo? What about Stalin? If you think the Waffen SS alone did ‘nasty things’ then what about the regular army troops and their actions on the Eastern Front? On the basis that the SS are not shown, I trust you will not be including submarines? I don’t want to see any Japanese troops in China, I hope V-weapons and 4-engined bombers are not present either.

This is a very sad development – and for a supposedly serious publisher – a very worrying one.

+ 1

Only I am not sure it's Matrix (publisher) fault...I mean, a year ago they published to deserved acclaim DC:B, where we have decisions involving actions of einzatsgruppen !

This is probably a designer's choice - a very poor one, IMHO

warspite1

Fair point. I guess it reflects badly on Matrix because they are the publisher - its their decision to publish, not to design the game.

[RodyMetal]

I am not sure, who is seeing it as sensitive thing? Any wargamer? I doubt it.
I was happy with DC:B bold move to include more realistic WW2 activities , I thought we had progress and people start to view WW2 as part of any other historic event, the only prevention is some laws which I believe they will be removed in matter of time once majority agree that certain issues are not offensive to anyone anymore.