GD 1938: Closest Friend

[ernieschwitz]

Hi Guys,

I thought I would pose a question to all of you who have tried to play GD 1938. The topic here being going to war with a country (minor) you are best friends with. Currently if you do so, the country that will take over the minor is the 2nd best friend. This does pose some troubles.

Most of the time you will not know who you are going to war with in that case, it may be one of your allies, which is rather unfortunate, and can cause things that may seem like a situation where one nation simply gifts the country to the other. That was never the intention, of the mechanic.

So I am considering making the change that if you try to go to war with a minor you are closest friends with, that the game will simply disallow you to do so. That is it will count as though you had not done the action.

Reactions?

[Twotribes]

Not acceptable you would make it impossible to declare war on minors.

[ernieschwitz]

Only those you are not closest friends with can be DOW'ed

That is if Major Country = minor countries best friend, then war is nullified.

[Twotribes]

I will quit playing the game if that is done. It is a game changer.

[ernieschwitz]

I would hate for that to happen. I also hate that Italy for instance could DOW Spain while being best friends with it, causing a German takeover, and the Germans then giving Spain to Italy in a show of good neighborlyhood and friendship. Wars are supposed to happen if you DOW a country... unless you intimidate a nation to surrender.

Can you expand on why you think that it would ruin the game for you? Give an example of what you think should still be possible, and why?

[cpdeyoung]

Lets look at the actual declarations we are all familiar with :

Germany on Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Denmark - should be no problems if GB or FR defend.

USSR on Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania - These should be defended by Germany if at all possible.

USSR on Finland - Probably Germany, certainly not the USA.

USSR on Persia, Afganistan - Germany.

Germany and the USSR should not be at "real" war, and should make peace if offered. They play their parts then make peace, unless an early war is desired by one, both, of the parties.

Germany or Italy on Spain - This war should not be allowed, period. Both Germany and Italy wanted Franco as an ally, not an enemy. In fact I think no one should be able to declare war on Spain.

Germany or Italy on Portugal - GB should defend.

Just my opinion, and there are other cases I am sure.

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

If you go to war with a minor your status to that minor should not effect the DOW, the concept of most friendly to, is a abstraction anyway, If you refer to a allied minor nation as opposed to friendly then that would require two tiers/levels of Major Power Minor Power diplomacy, regards Major powers who are friendly to a minor power going to war with the attacking Major Power should be the decision of the player and not a automatic action, after all the player is the government. Trigger events such as Poland attacked by Germany that could be a allied Minor/Major diplomatic level where the relationship of France and Great Britain to Poland would be Allied.

If it was absolutely in the interest of a Major Power to attack a minor then in the case of the Germans Italians and Japanese and I guess Chinese and Soviets, then I see no reason why they would not act in their own self interest.

[ernieschwitz]

Alright, it was just an idea, to try and make some of the abuses less doable. Points taken.

[ironduke1955]

Its a interesting idea that.

Democracies have Minor Allies.

Fascist's have satellite's.

Communists absorb minors into the collective (Yes I have seen Star Trek)

So this throws open a can of worms should democracies be able to take control of minor powers, I think not, they should be able to create minor Allies that act as blocks to the expansion of the other two political systems.

[ernieschwitz]

First of all, this is doable, but it would require a major recoding, of almost everything, mostly cause I expect that you would want satelite states/minor allies/collective states, to have each regime controlling them have the turn just after/before their own. Since this would change the numbers of each regime, it would require me to go in and change, well, everything that is regime specific.

Also, it would add 8 more regimes to the total number of regimes, making a grand total of 20 regimes all in all. Thus removing the whole idea of saving internal RAM use... and possibly causing more crashes...

I think we will keep the closest friend idea...

[ironduke1955]

"should democracies be able to take control of minor powers"

Just to clarify, I meant of course they take control if the minor is attacked, what I was referring to was influencing a minor, then taking control of the minor, instead of taking over the minor they would be permanently most friendly acting like a alliance. Just that no fundamental change as the Soviets and Fascists pretty much do the same thing. You could differentiate as the Soviets do not normally integrate the military of nations absorbed into the Soviet. So their take overs would be more like a intimidation with the territory being taken but the armed forces of the minor disbanded. It would personalise the Major Powers making them feel less generic.

[ernieschwitz]

An interesting idea, won't rule it out

[ernieschwitz]

Thought alittle about it.

It would be somewhat ahistorical that the Hungarians for instance did not come with their full complement of forces if taken peacefully by Germany. Same goes for Rumania and Bulgaria or even Finland...

So unless there is a solution for that...

[ironduke1955]

I was thinking about 3 separate results for the same action, the use of influence.

Democracies USA UK and France. When a minor reaches 800 points of influence the minor can become permanently friendly to one of the democratic majors. After 1000 points of influence then the permanently friendly state is certain.

Fascist Germany Italy and Japan. When a minor reaches 800 points of influence the minor becomes a satellite with all the forces and territory becoming part of the Major Power. Ditto 1000 plus points of influence.

Communist Soviet Union China ? when a minor reaches 800 points of influence the minor becomes part of the Major power, the forces are deleted only the territory becomes part of the major. Ditto 1000 plus points of influence.

China is a problem in so much as it is not purely communist at this time, though I feel its attitudes would not differ to much from the Soviet Union.

All minors would revert to most friendly Major if attacked.

If this is not doable then its just spit balling.

[ernieschwitz]

Yes, it is doable. So this has some merit. But I still can find more examples for each type of Major that a peaceful take-over is relevant. For instance the communists of Mongolia pretty much let the Soviets take them over, with everything...

[ironduke1955]

Well the clue is in the political persuasion of the mongolian's to start with communist, and I doubt the Mongolian army would have amounted to much, plus they would have been integrated into the Soviet armed forces fairly quickly, so as to become indistinguishable from the Soviets. The Hungarians and Romanians pretty much retained their equipment and command structure. But its a mute point and the meat of the idea is in the Democracies and Fascists. But I do think the communists did have less tolerance for the military of minors they were not trusted and we all know what happened to the Polish.