To all the cooks

[UP844]

I made a new attempt at awaking the Panzers, adding some VP hexes in clear terrain hexes (see my previous remark about VP being all in building hexes). Nothing happened: the Panther G continues firing at the Russian squad (12 hexes away, in a stone building and passing through two orchard hexes [X(]) and the other Panzers remain in their starting hexes.

@Rico: I only have a very vague idea about how the AI works, but in my opinion it is clear that - under some unknown conditions - it is definitely not aggressive enough. As a scenario designer yourself, I think you would also like to have some idea about what kind of AI behaviour one must expect. On a side note, I tried playing "Galatas Bayonet Charge" with the Germans and the NZ infantry did not fire at my units even though they were adjacent to them. May I be puzzled? I do not pretend having an AI playing playing subtle tricks like CE'ing vehicles for greater road speed and better accuracy [:D] like a human player. I would however like having some idea of its limits to take them into account when I am designing a scenario.

@Marcdhanna: I loved your AAR, make more of them! As Peter stated just after the release of the game, while everybody was asking for more extra features/vehicles/nationalities, "the first priority is to eradicate the bugs in the core system". I call myself a pain in the back because my post sometimes seem (to myself) an unending list of complaints.

[rico21]

Hi friends
1)l'AI nest pas assez agressive pour des joueurs chevrônés mais pour des débutants?
2)le pathfinding des tanks pose problème car 1 seul autorisé par hexe ce qui crée facilement des bouchons
3)L'AI commence son tour avec les blindés alors que dans la real life l'infanterie éclaire le terrain
4)Dans Galatas j'ai choisi sciemment des half-squad car c'est un combat au corps à cors(bayonet),
des squads l'auraient joué shoot them up
5)Personnellement j'aime le fog of war et découvrir les secrets de l'AI(entrer dans la tête de Peter)
progressivement,mais je comprends que d'autres(you?) veulent tout comprendre et tout savoir rapidement.
6)Personne ne détient la vérité c'est juste une affaire d'impressions.
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1) AI is not aggressive enough for practised players but for beginners?
2) pathfinding tanks is problematic because only one authorized by hexe which easily creates plugs
3) The AI begins his turn with armor while in real life the infantry field lights
4) Galatas I knowingly chose half-squad because it is a fight to the horns body (bayonet)
squads have played the shoot 'em up
5) I personally like the fog of war and discover the secrets of the AI (get into the head of Peter)
gradually, but I understand that others (you?) want to understand everything and know everything quickly.
6) No one knows the truth it's just a matter of impressions.

[UP844]

1) The AI is not aggressive at all. In fact, it does not even move two thirds of its AFVs. As for beginner players, I think playing at the easier level should be enough.
2-3) I agree
4) The scenario designer is the king of his creation [:D]. I do not discuss your OOB, but - again - the lack of aggressiveness shown by the IA, which in turn leads to a massacre of its units (I managed to surround the New Zealanders and kill most of them through failure to route: not exactly my idea of a challenging situation).
5) The "fog of war" is one thing and I also like it. Wondering why - in some cases - the AI does not move at all (even when I changed all the woods into clear terrain) is another thing, especially if one is interested in scenario design.
6) I wish I knew the truth, but I only have lot of doubts [:)]

[rico21]

1)Finalement nos points de vue sont proches
2)Critiquer c'est bien ,proposer c'est mieux
3)Je suis sûr que pratiquement tous ces problèmes ont déjà été analysés par Peter et qu'il n'a tout
simplement pas la réponse actuellement mais peut-être plus tard il l'aura.
4)Pour le pathfinding des tanks intégrer dans l'AI un passage possible sur un hexe occupé par un autre
tank sans qu'il puisse s'y arrêter résoudrait les bouchons.
5)Un démarrage aléatoire des unités par l'AI améliorerait le fog of war et le réalisme.
6)Peter travaille déjà sur l'agressivité de l'AI.
7)TOTH is his baby and he 's the king of improve AI.
8)Je ne sais pas si il est du genre à penser que toute idée qui ne vient pas de lui est une mauvaise idée.
9)C'est lui qui a les réponses.
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1) Finally our views are close
2) Criticism is good, is better offer
3) I am sure that almost all of these problems have already been analyzed by Peter and did everything
just not the answer now but maybe later it will.
4) For the pathfinding tanks integrated into the AI possible passage on a hexe occupied by another
tank without being able to stop them solve the caps.
5) A random starting units by the AI would improve the fog of war and realism.
6) Peter is already working on the aggressiveness of the AI.
7)TOTH is his baby and he 's the king of Improve AI.
8) I do not know if he is one to think that any idea that does not come from him is a bad idea.
9) He has the answers.

[UP844]

Our views have always been close [;)]

I would be more than happy to offer solutions, but I'm not able to do that: highlighting the problems is the most I can do.

I am aware Peter knows is steadily working at eradicating the bugs, and I'm eagerly looking forward to Update 2 (I'm already drooling for the removal of the double OBA bug).

P.S. I just finished playing the new "Hill 621": the T-34 attacked en masse (all six of them), but afterwards I only saw two SPGs (a SU-122 and a SU-152) out of five.

[marcdhanna]

ORIGINAL: UP844


@Marcdhanna: I loved your AAR, make more of them! As Peter stated just after the release of the game, while everybody was asking for more extra features/vehicles/nationalities, "the first priority is to eradicate the bugs in the core system". I call myself a pain in the back because my post sometimes seem (to myself) an unending list of complaints.

Thanks UP844 [:)]-- I will do some more AAR but I think I will wait for the update 2 to kick in -- based on what you and Rico are discussing here now, I'm not sure there is much for me to add in terms of AAR until then.

I'm a seasoned/crack ASL player, a casual PC gamer but not a long-time TotH player. In other words, I don't buy Civ 6 and go immediately to play 'Immortal' level because I'm not a fanatic about playing 1000 + hours on each Civ release to beat the AI on all sorts of seemingly impossible configurations. I play Europa Universalis IV regularly with some friends who are into that sort of marathon skill thing and I don't try to keep up to their ability development.

Yet, because of ASL experience I went for the hardest levels on this game. I don't find 'very difficult' with 'fog of war' with 'high path finding' to be challenging enough, but it's fun enough! Plus, the designers/developers have responded to this kind of feedback from many who care about the game.

Those who don't care about the game won't bother to assist or, amusingly, they come in with lame announcements of why they won't play it yet (I can't imagine going to a forum site and announcing why I won't play that game yet, but whatever, it's funny what you see[>:][:'(])

Just wishing I knew more about how AI works in these games so I could provide some Mods 'advice'. What I do know is that AI doesn't improve in any game without feedback from players and eventually in many cases with some Mods from the community. This is true for Civ 5 as much as it might be true for this game. cheers! [:)]

[rico21]

Hill 621 2/5 SU
1) Traffic jam
2) all vp occupied by AI
3) AI leaves behind AFV reserve
4)OR VPACCESSBUG
5)AT FEAR

[Big Ivan]

TotH Folks,

Over in the scenario section I updated my three scenarios in order to fix some of the ordnance placement
and reinforcement issues discussed in this thread. You can download the new updates there.

Enjoy!!

Big Ivan[John][:)]

[UP844]

I just tried "JP001 - No other choice" playing with both sides.

Unfortunately, when playing with the Russians, nothing changed: the German Panzers stay still. I tried moving the Russian squad the Panther G uses as target practice in the adjacent hex (so that the Panther does not see any Russian at start). The Panther G moved, but neither the vehicles behind it, nor the centre group ever appeared, so I gave up on turn 4 before performing the usual infantry massacre. I am running short of ideas about how to force those Panzers to move (unfortunately, the vehicle in the image below - which could be very useful - is not included in TOTH [:(]).

Playing with the Germans, the scenario works much better: I finished it on turn 10, with all VP hexes under German control and only a few scattered Russians remaining.

@Big Ivan:

- In the German OOB there is a C* leader (#14) with a radio, but no OBA is associated to the radio. I added an 80mm module and - unlike the Panzers - it attacked me since turn 1 .
- I also noticed the German can achieve a Major Victory by having only 50 VP, while the Russians must have 125 VP. Does this simulate that the Germans are attempting to break out of the encirclement rather than controlling territorial objectives?

[Big Ivan]

ORIGINAL: UP844

I just tried "JP001 - No other choice" playing with both sides.

Unfortunately, when playing with the Russians, nothing changed: the German Panzers stay still. I tried moving the Russian squad the Panther G uses as target practice in the adjacent hex (so that the Panther does not see any Russian at start). The Panther G moved, but neither the vehicles behind it, nor the centre group ever appeared, so I gave up on turn 4 before performing the usual infantry massacre. I am running short of ideas about how to force those Panzers to move (unfortunately, the vehicle in the image below - which could be very useful - is not included in TOTH [:(]).

Playing with the Germans, the scenario works much better: I finished it on turn 10, with all VP hexes under German control and only a few scattered Russians remaining.

@Big Ivan:

- In the German OOB there is a C* leader (#14) with a radio, but no OBA is associated to the radio. I added an 80mm module and - unlike the Panzers - it attacked me since turn 1 .
- I also noticed the German can achieve a Major Victory by having only 50 VP, while the Russians must have 125 VP. Does this simulate that the Germans are attempting to break out of the encirclement rather than controlling territorial objectives?

Hi Carlo,

Yes there should be an 80mm OBA attached to the German radio. Dummy me, I missed that, my bad!! Sorry.

The scenario was suppose to be a pocket breakout rather than territorial gain. But the only way the Germans could win was to grab objective hexes. I felt if I had it
as exit objectives a human German player would easily run by an A/I Russian player and score the major victory. The A/I Russians I was hoping would hold on for dear
life to protect the building objectives denying the Germans a victory.

To bad about those A/I German tanks not wanting to move.[&:] There has to be something preventing them from moving to the attack. In Budapest Under Siege,
the German armor did move and chewed me up pretty good!! But the Germans in Budapest Under Siege are in "hold" attitude and the Russians "advance" attitude.

Big Ivan

[UP844]

Hi John,

If exit hexes are present, a defending AI will run to them and stay there, as you can see in the some SL classics like "Escape from Velikiye Luki" and "Buchholz Station". What's driving me mad is that:
1. only part of the German tanks don't move
2. some of these tanks have no impassable terrain ahead, and the ones that move do so through a forest road.
3. in other scenarios, with even rougher terrain, this does not happen. By way of example, I'm playing "A Grim Reminder" with the Germans, and some T-34s boldly charged through the woods (they also become bogged, but this is another story [:D]).

I like the changes you made in "A Grim Reminder": it's even more challenging now! [:)]

Here, I am experiencing how feels being on the wrong side of the Russian steamroller (the wreck near the StuG is another PzIV)