Extend to 1942-43

demyansk · Post by **demyansk** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:29 am

I wonder if this system would work for a Vietnam type of game with military and political decisions?

warspite1 · Post by **warspite1** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:40 pm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Future titles should stick to U.S. market appeal, as lancer and Orm point out, so the series sells and keeps going forward.
warspite1

What is the % split of war game sales US vs Rest of the World?

warspite1

?

Stryder · Post by **Stryder** » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:47 pm

ORIGINAL: wodin

With an engine this good I really can't see it being an issue if it was set during WW1. The engine will sell the game.

I can't imagine what part of any WW1 game would be interesting. The western front would be a complete snooze. On the Eastern front, there are several inept armies slogging it out until the non-decisive collapse of Russia.

I can't think of how this DC engine would have any marked difference. What decisions would need political points? -to not make an attack for several years? -or launch the completely futile attack doomed to failure?

rommel222 · Post by **rommel222** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:02 am

Greetings warspite 1,
2016 video/computer games breakdown for U.S. market: (only 6% are strategy games)
http://essentialfacts.theesa.com/Essent ... s-2016.pdf

Projected sales for US market 2016:
http://venturebeat.com/2016/08/16/u-s-g ... ne-growth/

CNBC worldwide projected sales 2015:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/26/digital- ... eport.html

2016 Game Revenue by COUNTRY: China #1 & U.S #2 & Japan #3 then drops off quickly
https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/to ... -revenues/

From wargamer.net:
http://wargaming.com/en/news/trends_in_game_industry/

Wargaming, especially strategy, is still a small niche market.
If I come across more detailed or specific reports I will post them.

Vic · Post by **Vic** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:32 am

Hey all,

There is also something as time being a limiting factor.

For the moment I am working on Shadow Empire, but when its finished I am defintely considering doing a new DC title. I love world war 2 history and it would be a nice switch to go back to it.

In the meantime I am supporting DC:Community Project (the editor) and willing to support (within reason) any promising scenario designer when specific extra features and / or libraries are needed.

Best wishes,
Vic

lancer · Post by **lancer** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:57 am

Hi rommel,

That's an interesting PDF you've dug up.

According to it, sales for Strategy games on the PC are around 36% of the total (which would vary, I suppose, depending on how tightly you wanted to define 'strategy'). The 6% is for mobile devices.

Cheers,
Cameron

wodin · Post by **wodin** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:28 am

Honestly lower the scale and Western front would be fantastic..even higher scale..it's the decision aspect which would be a major part of the game..I'm a WW1 obsessive so know what I'm talking about here. Who knows get the planning right, the right training the right planning and with abit of luck who knows you may get that hoped for breakthrough into open warfare!! or lower scale would work great maybe lowest unit is a platoon. Any period would be fine. It's a fascinating war with a constant supply of new tech and new tactics needed to be learned hence why it actually could be very interesting indeed.

Plus it wouldn't be political points as such..more like experience points maybe..loads of decisions and planning needed. It would easy work..if there weren't lots of decisions to be made and planning etc for something like the Somme battle then you wouldn't have the endless supply of books about it.You wouldn't stick to the Barbarossa rule set..it would be totally modified to fit in with WW1. The actual core mechanics is all that's need, then you reinterpret them in a different way.

ORIGINAL: jfarber

ORIGINAL: wodin

With an engine this good I really can't see it being an issue if it was set during WW1. The engine will sell the game.

I can't imagine what part of any WW1 game would be interesting. The western front would be a complete snooze. On the Eastern front, there are several inept armies slogging it out until the non-decisive collapse of Russia.

I can't think of how this DC engine would have any marked difference. What decisions would need political points? -to not make an attack for several years? -or launch the completely futile attack doomed to failure?

rommel222 · Post by **rommel222** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:03 am

Greetings lancer,
Thanks for the correction. But of that 36% the number of military strategy games, like titles at matrixgames, is a small fraction of that figure. I one had total sales figures fro matrix & slitherine that could be compared to U.S. total to get a very rough estimate of the %
A few titles made it in PC Gamer's top strategy games:
http://www.pcgamer.com/best-strategy-games-on-pc/

Online wargaming, such as world of tanks & warships, has greatly increased interest in wargames.

The computer/video industry worldwide sales from statista: (click show more & blue hotlinks)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/278 ... by-source/

lancer · Post by **lancer** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:40 pm

Hi Rommel,

Yep, you're correct. Military strategy is a small subset of strategy games and hex and counter style wargames are a tiny subset of that.

Paradox sold around 150,000 copies of their latest iteration of Hearts of Iron so there's a market there but perhaps one for a more modern approach.

Cheers,
Cameron

demyansk · Post by **demyansk** » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:17 pm

This is a good thread. The dc3 seems to be a favorable system and many players like it. I think any title using it would probably work. Western Front of 1940 would be interesting along with Sea lion.

Thanks Vic for making these games. I get tired of Battlefield 4.

warspite1 · Post by **warspite1** » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:22 am

ORIGINAL: rommel222

Greetings warspite 1,
2016 video/computer games breakdown for U.S. market: (only 6% are strategy games)
http://essentialfacts.theesa.com/Essent ... s-2016.pdf

Projected sales for US market 2016:
http://venturebeat.com/2016/08/16/u-s-g ... ne-growth/

CNBC worldwide projected sales 2015:
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/26/digital- ... eport.html

2016 Game Revenue by COUNTRY: China #1 & U.S #2 & Japan #3 then drops off quickly
https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/to ... -revenues/

From wargamer.net:
http://wargaming.com/en/news/trends_in_game_industry/

Wargaming, especially strategy, is still a small niche market.
If I come across more detailed or specific reports I will post them.

warspite1

Thanks for posting. Well the Chinese are as big a market but who knows what they want to war game.

So I guess that's clear... can't wait for the next Bulge game [:(]

Philippeatbay · Post by **Philippeatbay** » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:37 pm

What I suspect a lot of people don't fully comprehend is that there are two neccessary components to the magic of the DC:3 engine.

The first is the brilliant Decisive Campaigns counter-shuffling engine which has been maturing over several years like a glorious red wine.

That part can be thrown at any game subject you want with a bit of tinkering, and that's what the Community Project seems to be about.

But the other part is the role-playing and logistics component which takes DC:3 outside the envelope.

That's a very labor-instensive component dependant on one designer's research and writing abilities, and can't be conjured out of a bottle ad libidem.

The best group of role-playing writers out there that I'm aware of is the small team that spent ten years putting together Age of Decadence, a CRPG masterpiece that has enough writing under the hood to rival Tolstoy's War and Peace.

But even if you could convince them to abandon their current project and handed them Vic's DC engine and carte blanche, they probably wouldn't be able to come up with an adequate successor because they simply aren't wargamers (quite fond of science fiction, though).

DC:3 is a hybrid, and a key component of it's engine is one man's writing talents.

I may not always agree with his aesthetics, but I don't think DC:3 could exist without his vision.

wodin · Post by **wodin** » Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:01 pm

Philippe at bay: Fully agree. Such a crying shame we may never see another game using the engine. For me it's the future of wargames and all future wargames should have these features and even expand them. However I have a terrible feeling it's going to be a one off..a lone jewel. Probably years down the line it will be mentioned somewhere and hopefully spark development of games along similar lines.

rommel222 · Post by **rommel222** » Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:37 pm

Greetings warspite1,
With Chinese propaganda, I would guess Conquest of Taiwan.
http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/10/china- ... onflict-1/
More realistic is probably Girls und Panzer magna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girls_und_Panzer

Remmes · Post by **Remmes** » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:35 am

ORIGINAL: wodin

Such a crying shame we may never see another game using the engine.

Wodin, what drove you to this conclusion? In his post Vic stated that he will definitely consider a return to WWII after working on his latest title 'Shadow empire'. So it might be a while but there has been no definitive answer that there will never be another masterpiece like this one.

If I am not mistaken the latest version was made by Lancer with help from Vic. Maybe you could/should team up with Lancer to make a sequel? I can guarantee you guys one purchase already. Heck I might even consider a career switch to make it happen...

Just my 5 cents.....

wodin · Post by **wodin** » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:29 pm

Ramses, Lancer told me he wasn't able to continue making any further games and as this was his baby things might not look to good..

I actually offered to work alongside him the other week but he just can't put the time in that's needed for so little return.

Remmes · Post by **Remmes** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:04 am

ORIGINAL: wodin
I actually offered to work alongside him the other week but he just can't put the time in that's needed for so little return.

Ah, the money thing, the 'niche' thing. So sad that even the better games is 'our' niche get so little attention and revenues. I had hoped that this game being on Steam and all that there would be enough resources to keep things going, but apparently not so.

Templer_12 · Post by **Templer_12** » Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:08 pm

So no Tigers, no Manstein, no Stalingrad, no...
[:(]

wodin · Post by **wodin** » Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:34 pm

Only if someone takes up where Lancer left off!

Redmarkus5 · Post by **Redmarkus5** » Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:12 am

ORIGINAL: lancer

Hi Rommel,

Yep, you're correct. Military strategy is a small subset of strategy games and hex and counter style wargames are a tiny subset of that.

Paradox sold around 150,000 copies of their latest iteration of Hearts of Iron so there's a market there but perhaps one for a more modern approach.

Cheers,
Cameron

Not meaning to knock Paradox, but as an enthusiastic wargame collector and player, even I shunned the latest iteration of HOI after struggling with earlier ones and reading the negative reviews about this new one on Steam.

I'm not saying the market is huge, but it's real and a well-designed game should still make money, IMHO.

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