Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone)

[timmyab]

Interesting situation North of Moscow. You've done well to make a fight of it.
I'm a caucious type so I would be thinking seriously about backing out of that salient if I was Pelton.
The German position is probably strong enough to win in 42 without any need for heroics.

[Dinglir]

ORIGINAL: timmyab
I'm a caucious type so I would be thinking seriously about backing out of that salient if I was Pelton.

A good question, what will Pelton do?

My guess is that he will stay put during mud and then analyze on the first snow turn, what he can do before the blizzard.

1) Encircle Moscow and all the troops there. That would be a disaster for the Soviets, but it doesn't seem likely Pelton will be able to do this.

2) Cut the railroad. Still a possibility, especially as the Soviets do not have a +1 Attack modifier. If he can cut the line, he can spend the next few turns watching the Soviets spending a lot of trucks resupplying the divisions at Moscow, while he himself pulls the panzers back to safety.

3) Pull back his Panzers. If he can not take offensive action, he can start pulling back his panzers without to much risk.

Against me (and a +1 Attack option) he did leave his Panzers at the front outside Voronezh (probably hoping to take the city). When on the first snow turn he realized my defenses were to strong, he started pulling out the Panzers.

My fingers are crossed for you Stelteck. Keep going.

[Stelteck]

Moscow will soon be empty of industry, so i can loose it, but not in 1941 as it would trigger the autovictory condition. (As voronev is lightly defended and quite doomed).
Even if moscow is encercled, i will need to fight for the pocket, hoping to restore line in winter.

I'am not very worry of the lack of heavy industry situation, as it is:
- A long term issue. If i'am still alive at the time all good.
- I still can cut planes or fortification production in late war to save supply.
It is a bet. We will see.

I received currently tons of light infantry brigades and i'am currently trying to built a potemkin / looks like real-front in others part of soviet russia, like stalingrad, the caucasus, etc....
But all guards troops, siberian divisions from east and remaining elite troops are preparing to attack around moscow.

[chaos45]

I honestly dont think he will cut off moscow at this point. You could save yourself alot of routing units by arranging your defense better esp right before mud ends. As the way you are set up now he will rout any stack he hits, since you arent leaving any retreat space.

Mud should lower his supply deliveries and even when it goes to snow he will have same issue.....so at this point with how strong moscow looks I think you may be safe. An honestly all you need is a couple more divisions at Vorozneh before mud ends to save it.

German CV seems to drop off abit once mud sets in and then even goes to snow, and supplies esp...not to mention that once blizzard hits his supplies drop off even more....so any units that burn up all their supply load right before blizzard are hurt even worse once blizzard hits.

[Stelteck]

One question i have each turn also, does it worth it to attack even if there is no chance of winning ?

I have the opportunity to attack ennemy tops divisions in the spearhead to lower their ammunition. It is effective their ennemy go to red.
But the attacking units take heavy looses and the ennemy divisions not so much.

I do not know if it could be effective.

Did unit that do nothing consume a lot of supply ? Or they have to fight to use it ? I would like to increase the problem of supplying ennemy troops.

[chaos45]

you can force them to burn off supply and ammunition. They do burn a % of their supplies each turn even when you dont attack just to maintain the unit.

however be very careful esp in 1941/1942 using soaking attacks as the Soviets. As any units you attack with and fail will be very weak for possible German counterattacks. As your units will burn off ammunition/supply, usually take alot of damaged elements you dont repair as well due to lower experience, and you will most likely lose morale.

Air strikes on the lead units should be every turn, this will force them to burn off some ammunition to AA fire, as well it will cause damaged elements which may not repair. Even if his air units fly to intercept thats just more supply those airbases are being required to pull from hopefully abit distant rail heads.

Keep in mind the printed CV shown on the map isnt accurate. The more you play the more you will understand this. It shows more or less what the units capabilities are, but commander rolls, supply, and damaged unit attrition will end up modifying the ending combat CV to determine who wins the actual battle. Which with good air strikes, good soviet commander rolls, and good allocation of support units from higher Soviet commands can sometimes give the Soviets a win even if the initial CV looks closer to equal.

So alot is in how you prepare the attack and which soviet commanders are in charge and how many support elements your army commanders might be able to add from army HQs to the battle. Takes some experience to judge this.

[Stelteck]

Thanks for the tips.
It is true that it is quite hard to estimage how many troops are enough troops when you need to counter attack german units. Especially if trying loosing would put you in very bad position the next turn.

[Stelteck]

Turn 18 : 16 October 1641

Mud today. Probable mud next turn. Cheer !!!

Situation did not changed.



The ennemy is using Junker-52 to ressuply the troops inside, using a small airport here. My fighters tried to stop them but did not found the ennemy in the rain. So i guess the ressuplying is quite effective.

The panzer division circle in red are fully fuelled and ressuplied elite troops that the german put there just before the rain. They are ready to attack as soon as the weather get better and it is not good news.
Others ennemy troops are low on fuel.



This is my renforcement list. Currently i receive a tons of infantry brigades with very low combat values. Still they can be usefull to man the quiet parts of my fronts.

Currently, i'am sending renforcement to voronev to try to hold it with moscow.



Last, the victory points. It is not my main center of attention, but this scenario is quite interesting as you gain victory points by doing things other time. For example, holding a city get a small amount each turn you own it.
Losses are also important. And it is interesting to note that the german invader worth 4 mores than the soviet worker.

[Stelteck]

Hhooo, after analysis, it looks like my partisan had gone wild another time !!!

This time, the line is cut so far that some german troops are isolated and completely out of supply.

So i think i will try to attack a little and see what is happening....



Some people also ask me what is happening in the south and why i do not show anything.

The answer is simple, nothing is happening in the south. Operation are completely stopped. My second rate brigades face second rate german troops, with no combat.

[Stelteck]

Turn 19 : 23 October 1941
Still mud in the center. Very good.
Some parts of south in the snow.

The german is struggling to repair the attacks of my terminator partisans and so many german troops are yet isolated. I did some attacks last turn which failed of course in mud but i only got as casualties as my opponents. Isolated units are reluctant to use ammo, and on my side i have plenty of shells.



In crimea, where the snow allow fighting, my oponent did some very serious attempt to break the line, using some french very good german divisions that replaced the romanians.

Crimea is defended by a complete army, the coastal army. This army is quite good in fact.

Still the attack fail, but my fortifications have been destroyed so they may not hold a long time now.
I cannot send more troops there but i will put a better general and some elite supports units to this army.



Nothing happens now in stalingrad and caucasus. It is a good thing as the defense is really low. I have to do something about it.

[Stelteck]

Just evacuated my last factory from moscow !!! Moar industries that facist will not have !!!

[Stelteck]

My army organisation :

Front and armies attached to front :
Troops dedicated to hold the line. There is everything here, from normal trained division (45 xp, CV 2) to divisions in training rushed to the front with CV 1 and brigades.
I try slowly to keep cheap supports here. Sappers, artillery regiment with no super heavy guns and not a lot of heavy guns. Mortars (130mm).
Some AA. Some AT guns regiments.
I try to find leader with 6 infantry, sometimes i keep those with 5.

Elite armies :
I named some armies as "Elite". When i choose to promote an army to elite status, first thing i do is to give them a dedicated color using the marvellous SET_COLOR option in the HQ display. Then i put here a level 7 leader.
In these armies i put the guard divisions and siberian divisions with experience > 50/55. Also the rare remaining armored and motorised divisions.
For them, i give the super heavy guns (203m howitzer, 280mm mortars) and artillery support with tons of heavy guns. Also rocket regiments (but i have a terrible rocket truck production at the time). Still some AAA and AT and sappers. Also guard support regiments of any types.
Currently 50 and 51 armies fighting in moscow, 56 army in reserve near moscow ready to counter attack.
And the coastal army that is holding crimea just got promoted to elite status.

I usually do not attach these armies to front but directly to stavka.

Shock army
Soon i will receive my first Shock army (with bonus administration for leader).
These armies will have elite status and will be dedicated to cavalry corps. I plan as priority to make as many cavalry corps as i can using all my cavalry divisions starting from december, then i will see if i have to create more.

If i find a spare front, i will create an highly mobile "Elite" front will all the elite armies inside. But i really do not have a spare front at the moment.

I'am thinking to create an elite air command too for my best air units.

[Stelteck]

Turn 20 : 30 october 1941

Another turn of mud. The german are repairing the railroad with great difficulties.
I wonder if instead of trying to encercle moscow, german may try to cut like the black arrow to create a better front before winter. It is possible.



Vehicules productions are terrible. I'am laking everything.
Except ZIS-30, but ZIS-30 is a tank destroyer only use in tank destroyer support unit compagny. And it is very expansive support unit political points wise to create for a very low number of vehicules.
I'am also starting to get low on armement points.

[Stelteck]

Turn 21: 06 November 1941 !!!

Another turn of mud (So no movements), but the holidays are over !!!!

Next turn there will be snow on all front, probably for the entire november, and the fighting will resume for moscow.

Now is the moment of truth !!!



Also this turns 2 new front activated. One of them will be my elite armies front. The others will defend the caucasus.
I also received tons of political points. I plan to use some in a complete army/commander overhall, but need also to store some for building cavalry corps in december.

Next turn, there will be blood !!!!

[Stelteck]

Turn 22 : 13 November 1941 !!!

Not a step back !!!



The battle for moscow have no brakes !!!

German attacks on 3 axes the moscow defenses.



Axe 1: German cut the top of my North western defenses. I was expected this move, and the defenses were not bad.
Yet my troops performed poorly and did not managed to repel the invaders. Now i have a douzens of trained divisions encercled and no way to free them.
They will fight to the death !!! I will try to drop supply inside the pocket.
As i said, i was expected this german move but it was difficult to do anything about it, excepting retreating. But....
Not a step back !!!!

Axe 2: A powerfull attack with all the panzers that were previously south of the large river. (looks like the nazi give up crossing the large river, which is good). My troops could not stop them, but performed a good delaying actions. But for the second time this year, german troops are in sight of moscow !!! But this axe is not so dangerous as german troops are too weak to assaut moscow now and this axe is not efficient to encercle the town, at least for now.

Then last axe 3 :

This is the most dangerous attack. The top of the grey army tried to move the vital sacred railroad to moscow !!!
But they had to go thought the entrenched 51 Elite Guard Army, commanded by one of the best soviet general.
This army was supported by a lot of heavy supports units such as 203mm howitzer regiments.

The fight was epic !! 4 times the invaders were repelled, but they managed to breach the first line of defense the 5st time. Only to fall to the ground exausted in front of the second defense line.

General alexander vasilevsky was immediatly promoted in game for this success !!!
But not to marshall yet, only to a higher general rank.


The ennemy did not reached the railroad.

I'am currently planning massive counter attack during my turn, with at least 400K men on the spear and the side of this trust. Let's cross fingers.

On the others part of the front, german troops were also aggressive, but without german panzers, they could only performed WW1 style front line attack.

But the good news is that the renforced voronev is not threatened. So looks like for the first time i'am confident not to fall in 1941.





On the bad side, crimea have been breached. Despite the coastal army promoted to elite army last turn.



The fresh new good leader i put here underperformed. It looks like noone can change poorly trained division into death machine.
There is no guard troops here despite "elite status".
I will fall back slowly to sebastopol. i'am not in a hurry, as the only armored division here is a bulgarian one, which is really poorly equiped. I think i will be able to rout it.

It is the bloodiest ever turn for germany as there was multiple difficult battle everywhere.



I suspect also that around 400 german tanks have been damaged in addition to looses.

[EwaldvonKleist]

Great game, very tense and dramatic. The battle of Moscow is a kind of all or nothing both sides.
Your OOB seems to be quite good?

[Hagar]

Having most of the front line troops in refit mode won't help in resisting attacks, methinks. I keep my front line in 'ready' status with a second echelon on reserve mode. Only from the third line of defense are troops in refit mode - sometimes even further when facing Panzers rather than infantry. Those troops in (most desperate) need of a breather are rotated to the rear for R&R. I haven't actually checked whether it makes any difference in defense stats simply because it seems a no-brainer to me to always keep my front troops in 'ready' status rather than anything else (except during mud season - then the whole shebang goes on refit mode). I can't find anything in the manual whether units on refit have worse defense stats than those on 'ready' though, so I might be mistaken in it having a worsening effect. Better safe than sorry, I'd say. Rotation most definitely works positively though.

[chaos45]

Refit/reserve mode doesnt affect combat stats as far as I know--- My understanding is next patch they may be changing it to start effecting combat value. Mor would have to speak up on that.

In general I found it best to leave all my units in critical sectors in refit mode unless I was hoping for reserve reactions then put those units in reserve mode. As it prioritizes them for replacements. This was a couple patches ago tho.

[Stelteck]

Turn away and the counter offensive provided very very small results. This is where everyone have to be smart unlike me and take the +1 standard soviet attack bonus.

At least i was against the best german defense general.





Never mind troops have been rotated, supply have been dropped from the skies and a new reserve elite army with good guards divisions have been committed to the front from east. Moscow have to hold until the blizzard !!!

[EwaldvonKleist]

Well, the two attacks you have made put a ZOC on the supply path of Peltons spearhead. The tip of the spear now gets even less supplies.