OT: Philippines Allies with China/Russia-WitP:Modern Times

[Rusty1961]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/duterte-meet ... 08788.html

Wow. I would say this is the biggest set-back since Saigon fell or Pearl Harbor was bombed.

Looks like Viet Nam is now surrounded, Thailand is in trouble and the tanker traffic to Japan had better finder a route from the US instead.

Head-spinning.

I've always hoped a modern-version of WitP would be produced. It would be hot!

[Treetop64]

Philippine politicians and heads of state in particular have a history of being highly corrupt even by the standards of the profession. Duterte's rather abrupt and overt willingness to cozy up to the Chinese government, and throw insults at American officials in return, suggests that he is already deep in Xi's pockets.

Duterte comes off as a simple individual, impressionable and easily influenced, not terribly intelligent.

If it's any consolation, many Filipinos are not happy about this at all.

It will be interesting to see what the Obama Administration does (or, more likely, doesn't do) about the situation...

[Rusty1961]

Agreed: I assumed that he was carrying Xi's water when he started mouthing-off on Obama this August.

What I find interesting is just how this changes the balance of power in the Western Pacific should China start deploying forces to say Subic Bay, etc.

I mean to think of Subic being a Chinese base is blasphemy having been the son of an American vet who fought to liberate the Philippines in the '40s.

[Anachro]

The PRC itself is blasphemy given the large majority of the Chinese blood spilled in the 2nd Sino-Japanese War was Nationalist blood. Meanwhile, Mao and his cronies went off to the mountains to hide and bide their time till everything blew over. History happens; and sometimes, you hate it.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Anachro

The PRC itself is blasphemy given the large majority of the Chinese blood spilled in the 2nd Sino-Japanese War was Nationalist blood. Meanwhile, Mao and his cronies went off to the mountains to hide and bide their time till everything blew over. History happens; and sometimes, you hate it.

I don't know much about the Sino-Japanese war but I was under the impression that both Nationalist and Communist troops lost millions of soldiers. Wasn't it the Communists that gave the Japanese a big setback at Hankow or Wuchow with an operation they knew would lead to the loss of hundreds of thousands of their troops when the Japanese brought in reinforcements?

[SheperdN7]

Rusty1961, I highly recommend Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations. Its essentially a modern version of the classic Harpoon Pen and Paper game. Great scenarios and the realism is off the charts.

I'm looking at this situation from a Canadian perspective, so I have to ask, what assets do you Yanks have in the pacific that are in range to counter this?

[szmike]

Not to try any flame, so it will be first and last comment on this, but why is it "correct" to always follow Americans, but "not correct" to change course?

Talk about megalomania

[CaptBeefheart]

The PI is about to find out the difference between living under Uncle Sugar's hegemony and Uncle Xi's hegemony.

Cheers,
CC

[Reg]

ORIGINAL: SheperdN7

Rusty1961, I highly recommend Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations. Its essentially a modern version of the classic Harpoon Pen and Paper game. Great scenarios and the realism is off the charts.

Command Live - Episode 3: Spratly Spat

[MakeeLearn]

Maybe Duarte knows America is not what it use to be and it's result on the world stage.

Why deal with the middleman.

[Anthropoid]

Concerning. However, whenever Chinese Imperialism is involved I always remind myself of one thing: China is a powder keg. One cannot simultaneously promote modern development and autocratic repression, eventually something must give. Prior to Xi taking office, there were some overtures coming from China that the new leader would be a reformer, who would carry China even further toward the Western model of freedom, transparency and due process. This has not come to pass, and if anything China has regressed some in terms of individual liberty. The power structure in control of China are operating on borrowed time and their aggressive expansionism are likely in part an attempt to compensate for this deficiency.

As such, I'm more concerned about a civil war in China than I am about China exerting more formal "control" over territories than they already exert.

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Concerning. However, whenever Chinese Imperialism is involved I always remind myself of one thing: China is a powder keg. One cannot simultaneously promote modern development and autocratic repression, eventually something must give. Prior to Xi taking office, there were some overtures coming from China that the new leader would be a reformer, who would carry China even further toward the Western model of freedom, transparency and due process. This has not come to pass, and if anything China has regressed some in terms of individual liberty. The power structure in control of China are operating on borrowed time and their aggressive expansionism are likely in part an attempt to compensate for this deficiency.

As such, I'm more concerned about a civil war in China than I am about China exerting more formal "control" over territories than they already exert.

You're not talking about the US of A...?.....[;)]....

Fred

[Encircled]

Well, at least he's not going to be criticized about his human rights record by the Chinese, and I bet he gets to keep all those "disputed" islands in the South China Sea.

I don't know, but how many decades are the PLN behind the USN roughly?

[Leandros]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

https://www.yahoo.com/news/duterte-meet ... 08788.html

Wow. I would say this is the biggest set-back since Saigon fell or Pearl Harbor was bombed.

Looks like Viet Nam is now surrounded, Thailand is in trouble and the tanker traffic to Japan had better finder a route from the US instead.

Head-spinning.

I've always hoped a modern-version of WitP would be produced. It would be hot!

I don't understand this "allies with China/Russia". Is there a war on?

Fred

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Well, at least he's not going to be criticized about his human rights record by the Chinese, and I bet he gets to keep all those "disputed" islands in the South China Sea.

I don't know, but how many decades are the PLN behind the USN roughly?

I'm not so sure about the islands going to the Philippines. The only reason anyone wants the islands is to extend their claim on the oil under the sea nearby. And as WITP-AE has shown, nations will fight over oil resources.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961
What I find interesting is just how this changes the balance of power in the Western Pacific

The balance of power already changed. I bow to the new masters from the Celestial Empire of the Center. Resistance is futile

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: Leandros

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Concerning. However, whenever Chinese Imperialism is involved I always remind myself of one thing: China is a powder keg. One cannot simultaneously promote modern development and autocratic repression, eventually something must give. Prior to Xi taking office, there were some overtures coming from China that the new leader would be a reformer, who would carry China even further toward the Western model of freedom, transparency and due process. This has not come to pass, and if anything China has regressed some in terms of individual liberty. The power structure in control of China are operating on borrowed time and their aggressive expansionism are likely in part an attempt to compensate for this deficiency.

As such, I'm more concerned about a civil war in China than I am about China exerting more formal "control" over territories than they already exert.

You're not talking about the US of A...?.....[;)]....

Fred

An epidemic of apathy and cynicism is not likely to lead to a civil war. Plus American citizens can mouth off and say pretty much anything they want. As long as they don't post state secrets to wikileaks, they have little to fear from the gubmint (at this point).

The U.S. is, indeed, an ailing young-adult nation but it was born with a coherent and reasonable vision and it may well recover and experience still more "Golden Ages." Certainly, the vast majority of humanity have migrated toward the broad outlines of the "American way" both geographically, culturally, ideologically, technologically. The world is so embroiled with the United States at this point, it seems unlikely that many who cast disparaging views her way would in fact like to see her go down, and even if they do, they are in a distinct minority. The United States remains the most popular nation on Earth, and the center of global attention, whether it continues to exemplify the ideals on which it was founded or not.

China is a critically ill ancient society which transformed from an autocratic feudal society into a revolutionary anti-colonial society and thence into a "communist" autocracy, indeed a true ideologically-based tyranny. Since that time, China has been forced by history to transform itself into something for which there are no exact precedents in world history: a state-controlled neo-mercantilist pirate society, with nostalgic connections to its "communist" autocratic roots and well-entrenched traditions of supremacist intolerance toward all forms of "diversity" (thought, identity, and rhetoric) which are not sanctioned by the ruling regime.

The clock is ticking for China, and when the bell tolls it is not likely to be pleasant or pretty for any of us, because it is certainly true that China is also deeply embroiled throughout global commerce and finance.

ORIGINAL: Leandros

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

https://www.yahoo.com/news/duterte-meet ... 08788.html

Wow. I would say this is the biggest set-back since Saigon fell or Pearl Harbor was bombed.

Looks like Viet Nam is now surrounded, Thailand is in trouble and the tanker traffic to Japan had better finder a route from the US instead.

Head-spinning.

I've always hoped a modern-version of WitP would be produced. It would be hot!

I don't understand this "allies with China/Russia". Is there a war on?

Fred

Many, as you well know; and few of which can be noted to be conflicts over which China or Russia or many Western nations share common goals and interests. China and Russia remain adversaries to "the West" for various reasons, with Western caution, suspicions and/or militarism being a minor contributor.

[John 3rd]

There has been no cogent Foreign Policy the last eight years here other then to apologize and draw down the military. This is leading to all sorts of consequences. Nature abhors a vacuum and it is presently being filled.

I am rather terrified of the growth in power by both Russia and China. Concur that China has VAST internal issues. RUSSIA is who scares this boy...

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

There has been no cogent Foreign Policy the last eight years here other then to apologize and draw down the military. This is leading to all sorts of consequences. Nature abhors a vacuum and it is presently being filled.

I am rather terrified of the growth in power by both Russia and China. Concur that China has VAST internal issues. RUSSIA is who scares this boy...

Arguably one could extend that "no cogent Foreign Policy" back to about 1991

When the USSR came apart at the seams, "we" let our guard down.

[John 3rd]

I would agree with those points.

We came CLOSE to a cogent Foreign Policy in 2001. I don't say a GOOD Foreign Policy but at least it had clear vision to start with.