Naval HQ question

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

User avatar
mussey
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Cleve-Land

Naval HQ question

Post by mussey »

I haven't made into the summer of 1943 in a long time, and just received the 5th Naval Fleet HQ and not sure how to use it. The manual said to put it where it can assist with repairs, but how can it if it has no naval support squads? Any advice would be appreciated.
Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"

Chris21wen
Posts: 6948
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2002 10:00 am
Location: Cottesmore, Rutland

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Chris21wen »

I've always believed the mere presence of a Naval HQ within it's command range increases ship repair as it says in the manual. If it doesn't then there is no purpose to a Naval HQ as they do nothing else. The presence of naval support squads in the HQ only add to it,

Having said that I can find no reference to it in Alfred's Ship Repair guide 101. So maybe Alfred could clarify

Oberst_Klink
Posts: 4839
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Oberst_Klink »

Chris

Link removed; referred to the old WitP, see fb.asp?m=4166101 and clarification from Alfred.


*** Inaccurate information removed ***

I never disregard Naval HQs. In fact, they are valuable for forward bases for the reasons above.

Klink, Oberst
My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.
User avatar
mussey
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Cleve-Land

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by mussey »

[font="Arial"]Guys, thanks for the response. Like you all, I have faith that they do some good and use them accordingly. However, some doubt crept in when trying to strategize a placement for them in the Marshall's since many of these islands are atolls with limited stacking space - we all must be selective with what we want in these tiny spaces ( ie Kwajelein).

8.1.1 reads only that Naval HQ's "speed ship repair time".

14.2.3.3 mentions that Naval Support assists in Pierside Repair, and

14.2.3.5 lists details of how Naval Support assists repairs.

But herein lies my confusion. USN HQ's have no Naval Support, only regular Support which only aids ground units. I must be missing something here [&:]. Since I rarely get into the later phases of this war, my skill set needs to grow to accommodate the increase of Allied units like these, and the dastardly strategies of a deadly Japanese foe.[/font]
Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"

Oberst_Klink
Posts: 4839
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Oberst_Klink »

Kamerad Buckeye,

If there's no Naval Support present, then 8.1.1 applies, not the rest. The HQs are certainly not just a mantel pieces or objects of beauty, they surely do help one somehow, even if it's just subconsciously.

Here's a test you can easily perform: use a damaged ship, let it repair. One test with the Naval HQ there or on combat (in order to do its work), one with no Naval HQ present or in rest mode (where it shouldn't assist).

Klink, Oberst

Amendment: I checked my actual scenario and all USN HQs got Naval Support; could you send a screenshot of the particular HQ that has not? Seems that the Asiatic Fleet in Manila hasn't got ones, but that's prolly because they didn't have any special naval support troops directly attached to them historically.
My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.
Alfred
Posts: 6683
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:56 am

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: Chris H

I've always believed the mere presence of a Naval HQ within it's command range increases ship repair as it says in the manual. If it doesn't then there is no purpose to a Naval HQ as they do nothing else. The presence of naval support squads in the HQ only add to it,

Having said that I can find no reference to it in Alfred's Ship Repair guide 101. So maybe Alfred could clarify


Not mentioned because they do nothing per se.

In itself, a Naval HQ does not magically speed up ship repairs. It is the naval support squads found within a Naval HQ or an engineer unit etc, which provide the benefits as outlined in the Ship Repair 101 Guide.

The benefit of having naval support squads inside a Naval HQ unit compared to inside an engineer unit is that the former unit has a command radius whereas the latter does not. This allows the benefit provided by the naval support squads to be extended (diminishing with distance) to surrounding areas.

Alfred
Alfred
Posts: 6683
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:56 am

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

Chris

Here is an older thread: tm.asp?m=1289078
Naval HQs like others pull 25,000+ additional supplies to the base (if available via road/RR network), they do assist in rearming, refuelling, refitting. Support squads, if available, speed up the loading/unloading process. Some say every 60 or 100 support squads add a size to the port, e.g. if you are on a size 4 port and you got 120/200 support squads it will be treated like a port size 6.

As far as the command range is considered... well, some Japanese Fleet or Naval Command HQs got ground units assigned. Hence, that should effect the fatigue and disruption recovery with the appropriate leader in place. Another theory, unconfirmed is, that the command range either affects the handling of surface groups with a surprise roll or add the command range to the port size. All can be more or less tested.

I never disregard Naval HQs. In fact, they are valuable for forward bases for the reasons above.

Klink, Oberst

Usually you provide accurate advice but this post is not one of them. In fact it is best if no one read it.

The link you provided links back to classical WITP. The entire ship repair process was redone for AE. As far as ship repairs is involved, what was valid in classical WITP is completely invalid in AE.

Alfred
Alfred
Posts: 6683
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:56 am

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Alfred »

ORIGINAL: mussey

[font="Arial"]Guys, thanks for the response. Like you all, I have faith that they do some good and use them accordingly. However, some doubt crept in when trying to strategize a placement for them in the Marshall's since many of these islands are atolls with limited stacking space - we all must be selective with what we want in these tiny spaces ( ie Kwajelein).

8.1.1 reads only that Naval HQ's "speed ship repair time".

14.2.3.3 mentions that Naval Support assists in Pierside Repair, and

14.2.3.5 lists details of how Naval Support assists repairs.

But herein lies my confusion. USN HQ's have no Naval Support, only regular Support which only aids ground units. I must be missing something here [&:]. Since I rarely get into the later phases of this war, my skill set needs to grow to accommodate the increase of Allied units like these, and the dastardly strategies of a deadly Japanese foe.[/font]

No, you are not missing "something".

Read my preceding posts. A Naval HQ must have naval support squads within it to provide ship repair benefits. No internal naval support squads, no ship repair benefit.

Depending on the scenario, non American Naval HQs do have internal naval support squads. American Naval HQs are more like an administrative district. This is all WAD.

Alfred
Oberst_Klink
Posts: 4839
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:37 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Oberst_Klink »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

Chris

Here is an older thread: tm.asp?m=1289078
Naval HQs like others pull 25,000+ additional supplies to the base (if available via road/RR network), they do assist in rearming, refuelling, refitting. Support squads, if available, speed up the loading/unloading process. Some say every 60 or 100 support squads add a size to the port, e.g. if you are on a size 4 port and you got 120/200 support squads it will be treated like a port size 6.

As far as the command range is considered... well, some Japanese Fleet or Naval Command HQs got ground units assigned. Hence, that should effect the fatigue and disruption recovery with the appropriate leader in place. Another theory, unconfirmed is, that the command range either affects the handling of surface groups with a surprise roll or add the command range to the port size. All can be more or less tested.

I never disregard Naval HQs. In fact, they are valuable for forward bases for the reasons above.

Klink, Oberst

Usually you provide accurate advice but this post is not one of them. In fact it is best if no one read it.

The link you provided links back to classical WITP. The entire ship repair process was redone for AE. As far as ship repairs is involved, what was valid in classical WITP is completely invalid in AE.

Alfred
Thanks for making me aware of that! I should have had a closer look at the thread I linked. Will adjust in order to avoid confusion.

Ta!

Klink, Oberst
My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.
User avatar
mussey
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Cleve-Land

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by mussey »

Thanks, I had to take a break to eat some Honey Badger Stew ([:D]).

Anyway, here's a screenshot of the 7th US Fleet. Note, no Naval Support squads. Should it have? I'm playing the Beta Ironman using v1.7.11.25.10



Image
Attachments
7thFleet.jpg
7thFleet.jpg (184.06 KiB) Viewed 187 times
Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"

User avatar
mussey
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Cleve-Land

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by mussey »

Sorry Alfred, I posted above while not seeing your reply. Gun jumping again [:(]

So US Naval HQ's do not have NS. OK. After game 3 tonight I'll research your earlier posts to get insight on how to use them.
Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"

Chris21wen
Posts: 6948
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2002 10:00 am
Location: Cottesmore, Rutland

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Chris21wen »

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Chris H

I've always believed the mere presence of a Naval HQ within it's command range increases ship repair as it says in the manual. If it doesn't then there is no purpose to a Naval HQ as they do nothing else. The presence of naval support squads in the HQ only add to it,

Having said that I can find no reference to it in Alfred's Ship Repair guide 101. So maybe Alfred could clarify


Not mentioned because they do nothing per se.

In itself, a Naval HQ does not magically speed up ship repairs. It is the naval support squads found within a Naval HQ or an engineer unit etc, which provide the benefits as outlined in the Ship Repair 101 Guide.

The benefit of having naval support squads inside a Naval HQ unit compared to inside an engineer unit is that the former unit has a command radius whereas the latter does not. This allows the benefit provided by the naval support squads to be extended (diminishing with distance) to surrounding areas.

Alfred
ORIGINAL: Alfred

Depending on the scenario, non American Naval HQs do have internal naval support squads. American Naval HQs are more like an administrative district. This is all WAD.

Alfred

All this time playing and I can still get it wrong. Thanks
User avatar
Anthropoid
Posts: 3107
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Secret Underground Lair

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Anthropoid »

ORIGINAL: mussey

Thanks, I had to take a break to eat some Honey Badger Stew ([:D]).

Anyway, here's a screenshot of the 7th US Fleet. Note, no Naval Support squads. Should it have? I'm playing the Beta Ironman using v1.7.11.25.10


Image
The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ ... playnext=3
User avatar
BBfanboy
Posts: 19688
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:36 pm
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Contact:

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

ORIGINAL: mussey

Thanks, I had to take a break to eat some Honey Badger Stew ([:D]).

Anyway, here's a screenshot of the 7th US Fleet. Note, no Naval Support squads. Should it have? I'm playing the Beta Ironman using v1.7.11.25.10


Image
What's your point/question Anthro?
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
User avatar
Anthropoid
Posts: 3107
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Secret Underground Lair

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Anthropoid »

No point; I just found that to be remarkable [:D]

No actually that was a screwup on my part! I copy-pasted that post from mussey to use as a visual aid in my other thread on "Is it Realistic That So Many LCU have Zero Combat Ability" . . . and made a bit of a BBS-foo bar . .
The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ ... playnext=3
User avatar
mussey
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Cleve-Land

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by mussey »

So.... Using deductive logic, for clarity's sake:
It has no naval support, so it will not aid in ship repair, nor port loading/unloading.
It is not a corp/army/command, so it will not aid land combat attack value.
It is not Air HQ, so no air support.
It does have regular support, so it does aid land units stacked within the same hex.

It has a range of 5. What for?
Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"

User avatar
geofflambert
Posts: 14887
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: St. Louis

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by geofflambert »

The general support benefits everything within that range. Most LCUs have insufficient internal support and need the help. This is mostly about transportation and some about office stuff. Trucks on land, other on other.

User avatar
Anthropoid
Posts: 3107
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:01 am
Location: Secret Underground Lair

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by Anthropoid »

ORIGINAL: mussey

So.... Using deductive logic, for clarity's sake:
It has no naval support, so it will not aid in ship repair, nor port loading/unloading.
It is not a corp/army/command, so it will not aid land combat attack value.
It is not Air HQ, so no air support.
It does have regular support, so it does aid land units stacked within the same hex.

It has a range of 5. What for?

What Alfred said:
ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: mussey

[font="Arial"]Guys, thanks for the response. Like you all, I have faith that they do some good and use them accordingly. However, some doubt crept in when trying to strategize a placement for them in the Marshall's since many of these islands are atolls with limited stacking space - we all must be selective with what we want in these tiny spaces ( ie Kwajelein).

8.1.1 reads only that Naval HQ's "speed ship repair time".

14.2.3.3 mentions that Naval Support assists in Pierside Repair, and

14.2.3.5 lists details of how Naval Support assists repairs.

But herein lies my confusion. USN HQ's have no Naval Support, only regular Support which only aids ground units. I must be missing something here [&:]. Since I rarely get into the later phases of this war, my skill set needs to grow to accommodate the increase of Allied units like these, and the dastardly strategies of a deadly Japanese foe.[/font]

No, you are not missing "something".

Read my preceding posts. A Naval HQ must have naval support squads within it to provide ship repair benefits. No internal naval support squads, no ship repair benefit.

Depending on the scenario, non American Naval HQs do have internal naval support squads. American Naval HQs are more like an administrative district. This is all WAD.

Alfred

Although, now that I read that more closely I am wondering, what does "within it" mean?

I had assumed that:
If an LCU like an ENG is within the "range" of a naval HQ, that the naval HQ offers a benefit to any naval functionality (e.g., loading or repairing) for any and all LCUs in its range. But it might actually mean the opposite:
only non-American Haval HQ units afford any benefit to naval functionality? because they do have naval support squads embedded within the Naval HQ unit?

I would also assume that being within a certain range of a naval HQ could/should afford some benefits to seaborne naval operations, though that is more debatable and would depend more on the range of wireless communications than is suggested by the range of range values for HQ units, going from 1 for subordinate up to 7 or 9 for the most superordinate?

I've always just worked from the vague assumption that "anything" related to the functionality of a specific type of HQ will be "a little bit better" if it is happening within that HQ's range, but now that I'm reading what Alfred said I wonder if that is correct.
The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ ... playnext=3
User avatar
geofflambert
Posts: 14887
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:18 pm
Location: St. Louis

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by geofflambert »

I think the support benefits anything within its range. We're mostly talking about trucks and office staff. If it's islands, some sort of water transportation must be implied.

User avatar
mussey
Posts: 682
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Cleve-Land

RE: Naval HQ question

Post by mussey »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

The general support benefits everything within that range. Most LCUs have insufficient internal support and need the help. This is mostly about transportation and some about office stuff. Trucks on land, other on other.
Mr. Gorn, you are a credit to your fellow lizard-kind. its the only logical conclusion that makes sense to me as well. Too bad they don't have more pure 'naval' attributes. [:(]
Col. Mussbu

The long arm of the law - "The King of Battle"

Post Reply

Return to “War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition”