North Yemen Civil War 1965 Egypt v UK

[Jorm]

This scenario explores a more active involvement by UK in the North Yemen Civil War. Often called Egypts Vietnam...

Scoring is not enabled and turn special messages on

There are some things i would have liked to do differently with SAR aircraft but dont know how

have fun and any feed back would be great


For some great immersion here are some YOUTUBE clips from the UK base at the time

Aden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks-ymRuo_Z8

RAF Khormaksar 1962 -1964 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqKU0RsrXGQ

If you check out Google earth you can still see 8 Beagles parked at Al Hudaydah, i guess they are abandoned ?

[Jorm]

Any feedback , thought for improvement on this one ?

Any one check out what look like Beagles on Google earth, im not 100% sure what they are but they sure look like Beagles

cheers

Paul

[stolypin]

Next on my list (hopefully tomorrow).

[Randomizer]

Some minor, initial observations:

A couple of naval groups do not have any designation other than the Group XXXX that is generated when the group is created. These include the aircraft carrier group and the Ajax frigate group.

Group 6906 is 27 tarmac spaces that look like they should be part of RAF Khormaksar but are not.

The game starts at 0901 local. Seems odd. Or not.

There's nothing in the briefing or orders about the three RFA: Reliant, Tidespring and Lyness. Do they have any function?

"Destroy the convoy"? This task comes out of the blue in so far as orders go. The briefing could be more useful or military since as is it reads a bit like a shopping list stuck on a refrigerator door.

The briefing refers to if/when hostilities with Egypt begin but Egyptian forces are already hostile.

Presumably the Royalists are neutral for a reason? Seem odd since with Egypt already hostile the reason for covert British action from the briefing seems unnecessary.

Is there any specific task for HMS Auriga?

The briefing and scenario description details could use a bit more colour but all that said, looks like lots of potential for a challenge and an interesting force mix. Looking forward to running with it.

-C

[Jorm]

ORIGINAL: Randomizer

Some minor, initial observations:

A couple of naval groups do not have any designation other than the Group XXXX that is generated when the group is created. These include the aircraft carrier group and the Ajax frigate group.

Group 6906 is 27 tarmac spaces that look like they should be part of RAF Khormaksar but are not.

The game starts at 0901 local. Seems odd. Or not.

There's nothing in the briefing or orders about the three RFA: Reliant, Tidespring and Lyness. Do they have any function?

"Destroy the convoy"? This task comes out of the blue in so far as orders go. The briefing could be more useful or military since as is it reads a bit like a shopping list stuck on a refrigerator door.

The briefing refers to if/when hostilities with Egypt begin but Egyptian forces are already hostile.

Presumably the Royalists are neutral for a reason? Seem odd since with Egypt already hostile the reason for covert British action from the briefing seems unnecessary.

Is there any specific task for HMS Auriga?

The briefing and scenario description details could use a bit more colour but all that said, looks like lots of potential for a challenge and an interesting force mix. Looking forward to running with it.

-C

Excellent feedback, thanks !

Ill look to make changes to the briefing
I took some effort to ensure all of the RAF squadrons were correct except for 29 SQN which was on Cyrpus at the time, but could easily have been flown in to increase fighter strength for the increased UK effort. (reference: "RAF Squadrons, A comprehensive record of the movement and equipment of all RAF squadrons and their antecedents since 1912")

The tankers and supply ships have no role other than they were in the area at the time, and are something else for the UK commander to worry about protecting.

Yes indeed the Royalists should be allied to the UK and are indeed targeted by the Egyptian airforce, needs fixing

yes, i meant for the briefing to state Hostilities had commenced as Egypt has mined the enterence tot he red sea

Some wonky group names as i had to rebuild the scenario from scratch after saving a end game over the scenario file

sigh i know i was missing some of the A/C spaces for the base but missed what i had done, i.e. Group 6906!

The game starts at 0900 as we cant have the Wing Commander disturb his morning tea can we


thanks

[Randomizer]

Just to be clear, the observation regarding the 0901:54 start was just because most scenarios start straight up on the hour (or half-hour). I concur entirely with the necessity of undisturbed morning tea.

-C

[mikmykWS]

Got to admit I've picked up a bit of T habit since being over the UK. Lot easier on the stomach than the coffee.

M

[stolypin]

ORIGINAL: Any one check out what look like Beagles on Google earth, im not 100% sure what they are but they sure look like Beagles .

Definitely look like Beagles to me.

[stolypin]

I'm about 8 hours into the scenario and am finding it very interesting (and challenging).

What's up with the scoring? Both sides have suffered losses but the score never changes (always "0 - Average"). Does the score get adjusted at the end?

BTW, I thought I was pretty informed about most 20th century conflicts, big and small, but I'm not at all familiar with this one. I see, however, that there is a fairly recent book about it which I couldn't resist picking up:

https://www.amazon.com/Aden-Insurgency- ... words=aden

[DannyJim_slith]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listi ... 439&sr=8-2

£3.69 on Amazon UK!!

[Jorm]

ORIGINAL: stolypin

I'm about 8 hours into the scenario and am finding it very interesting (and challenging).

What's up with the scoring? Both sides have suffered losses but the score never changes (always "0 - Average"). Does the score get adjusted at the end?

BTW, I thought I was pretty informed about most 20th century conflicts, big and small, but I'm not at all familiar with this one. I see, however, that there is a fairly recent book about it which I couldn't resist picking up:

https://www.amazon.com/Aden-Insurgency- ... words=aden

Hi Stolypin, thanks for the feedback.
I didnt enable scoring for a few reasons beyond I'm am a lazy old wargamer .

I dont like feeling you are being penalised for losing assests, they are there to use at your discretion, i like to think you yourself as the 'commander' will know if you have achieved victory with acceptable losses.

also, im not sure how to 'value' some of losses, eg you have plenty of strike aircraft available to you but really not that many fighters, so what is more 'valuable' to you as the commander..

anyways, thanks for giving it a go, if you get a chance id really like to see you endgame losses etc


hey and a big thanks for the book tip !!!!!
I recently met a retired UK officer who was at ADEN at the time and spoke with him for a while about the experience.. really cool and interesting chap !!

cheers
Paul

[Randomizer]

Okay, had some fun with this. Observations:

- Only two escorts for two carriers seems a bit thin. Typically at least one would be dedicated plane guard during flight ops which leaves just Devonshire for combined ASW/AA defence. Meanwhile the Ajax Group is miles away without a real mission. Suggest this group be disbanded and the ships merged with the carrier group. This was my first action when starting the scenario. Another Leander/Plymouth frigate makes the screen a bit more reasonable particularly if you need to defend the RFAs too.

- HMS Auriga is pretty much useless where she is and getting her to a location where she contributes takes much of the scenario.

- Your naming conventions are all over the map, some have hull numbers, others not. Some names include classes others not and at least one is just a name and the minesweepers have no unique names at all. Giving unique designations to the ground units adds flavour too but these are easy user edits before starting the scenario.

Interesting situation and force mix, not sure that there would have been two-RN carriers east of Suez by that time but the combined air groups makes thing a lot easier for the Player. Thanks for the scenario.

-C

[Jorm]

ORIGINAL: Randomizer

Okay, had some fun with this. Observations:

- Only two escorts for two carriers seems a bit thin. Typically at least one would be dedicated plane guard during flight ops which leaves just Devonshire for combined ASW/AA defence. Meanwhile the Ajax Group is miles away without a real mission. Suggest this group be disbanded and the ships merged with the carrier group. This was my first action when starting the scenario. Another Leander/Plymouth frigate makes the screen a bit more reasonable particularly if you need to defend the RFAs too.

- HMS Auriga is pretty much useless where she is and getting her to a location where she contributes takes much of the scenario.

- Your naming conventions are all over the map, some have hull numbers, others not. Some names include classes others not and at least one is just a name and the minesweepers have no unique names at all. Giving unique designations to the ground units adds flavour too but these are easy user edits before starting the scenario.

Interesting situation and force mix, not sure that there would have been two-RN carriers east of Suez by that time but the combined air groups makes thing a lot easier for the Player. Thanks for the scenario.

-C

great feedback !

Yes i agree about the small things like ship names being very important to add flavour, i have JANES 1965 so will fix this

Yes initially had two extra escorts for the carriers but had broken them outs to form a radar picket group for the CA Lion escort group, i found they were not really needed so i took them out and left the broken our ASW group instead, but yes perhaps and extra FF would be appropriate


Yes there were two RN carriers in the region for FOTEX65, both Eagle and Victorious. 1965 to till UK's withdrawal from ADEN in 1967 was a very busy for the RN and UK in the region, also the Rhodesian Bush War was being supported by the RN at the time and ships were often transiting through the region / Aden. Also There were two RN carriers present to cover the 1967 withdrawal, so i though it would be pretty likely two would be available for this scenario.

There was a submarine squadron there at the time, i could think of no use for 4 of them so left one available for flavour and perhaps it may catch a badguy sub .....

im away for a week now but will make changes based on your two rounds of excellent feedback

cheers

Paul

[Randomizer]

PM sent...

-C

[ljdramone]

Jorm: "Any one check out what look like Beagles on Google earth, im not 100% sure what they are but they sure look like Beagles"

I see what look like 8 Beagles (Il-28s) parked on a taxiway at Hodeidah / Al Hudaydah airport, plus 3 more Beagles on the NE side (one may have been there a while, has a small tree growing around it.) There are also 3 Frescos (MiG-17s) nearby. I see at least 5 Fishbeds (MiG-21s) on the airport, 3 of them in sad shape next to a large wrecked hangar on the square concrete apron to the NE.

Several other destroyed hangars are visible, and at least one bomb crater. I'm guessing the Saudis have bombed Hodeidah at least once during the current Yemeni civil war.