Worm hole bug - no NJP

[tiemanjw]

I just loaded my latest turn and was shocked to see half a dozen destroyers ravaged by the KB off the coast of Oman. This was shocking, as these destroyers were about to exit the Panama worm hole near the west coast.
Details:
these ships were headed to Panama. One day off the map I ordered them to San Diego (which would have turned them around). This turn they exited the Aden wormhole.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Masirah at 23,7

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 46
B5N2 Kate x 28
D3A1 Val x 53

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DMS Dorsey, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Drayton, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Lamson, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS Lamberton, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS Zane, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS Perry, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
9 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
6 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
13 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DMS Dorsey
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Drayton
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DMS Lamberton
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Lamson
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DMS Zane

[Lokasenna]

Well, it does say "Arrival on Map at 21,3 in 1 days"... so the error happened prior to the resolution of the turn IMO. What did the mouseover say on the turn before?

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Well, it does say "Arrival on Map at 21,3 in 1 days"... so the error happened prior to the resolution of the turn IMO. What did the mouseover say on the turn before?

I just noticed that after I posted. I don't have the turn before saved... May be able to pull it from email when I get back.

Is there a way to change it? Njp offered a "do over" so to speak to change their orders. But no matter what I do, it doesn't seem new movement orders are accepted. And the only bases I can set as home port is the Panama ones (though it still says the same entry point).
Is there some combination of clicks I can do to not have them show up in front of the kb?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: tiemanj

I just loaded my latest turn and was shocked to see half a dozen destroyers ravaged by the KB off the coast of Oman. This was shocking, as these destroyers were about to exit the Panama worm hole near the west coast.
Details:
these ships were headed to Panama. One day off the map I ordered them to San Diego (which would have turned them around). This turn they exited the Aden wormhole.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Masirah at 23,7

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 46
B5N2 Kate x 28
D3A1 Val x 53

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DMS Dorsey, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Drayton, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Lamson, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS Lamberton, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS Zane, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DMS Perry, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
9 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
9 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
6 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
13 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 45cm Type 91 Torp
7 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DMS Dorsey
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Drayton
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DMS Lamberton
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DD Lamson
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring DMS Zane

I remember discussions about this when I first got the game. Because movement off-map is abstracted any change to destination after while in a holding box can cause unpredictable results - i.e. the game engine cannot handle it consistently. I have had TFs get stuck at 1,1 (or 0,0) for months when I first got the game and did not understand that you don't touch off-map TFs in the holding boxes! [:-]

[Yaab]

- You can't fight in here! This is the holding box!

[Bullwinkle58]

In my PBEMs, and in my ads, I have said that the only thing the code allows that I will never do is spin a TF in a wormhole. Some players (CR) have done it and gotten away with it. Some have had to ask Michael to intervene in the save file to correct the TF going into the Twilight Zone. As has been said here and elsewhere, the off-map code processes do not use regular x,y math. They're their own abstracted algorithms.

There maybe ought to be an error trap to prevent players from spinning there, but there isn't. So just say no.

[tiemanjw]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

In my PBEMs, and in my ads, I have said that the only thing the code allows that I will never do is spin a TF in a wormhole. Some players (CR) have done it and gotten away with it. Some have had to ask Michael to intervene in the save file to correct the TF going into the Twilight Zone. As has been said here and elsewhere, the off-map code processes do not use regular x,y math. They're their own abstracted algorithms.

There maybe ought to be an error trap to prevent players from spinning there, but there isn't. So just say no.

sounds like the way to go.
It seems to work fine with respect to TFs coming from an off map base to on map (then turned back to the off map base). But going the other way (on map to off map base, turn around to the on map base) seems to be a no - no.

NJP, being the stand up guy he is, offered to let me try to save the TF. In the state they were in above, I simply ordered the destination to Panama and resent the turn. This seems to have saved them - at first it didn't say anything different, but a turn or 2 later it now says something like 6 days to arrive in Panama (and have moved to the map outgoing holding box).