GD1938 Game 23

[LJBurstyn]

It is interesting watching the war from the peaceful Soviet Union.

[cpdeyoung]

5 February 1940

Here is a map of the battle in Argentina this month.

[cpdeyoung]

5 February 1940

ASW operations in the Pacific.

[ironduke1955]

March 1940

Paris falls.

Nantes is finally taken by the battered 1st SS Panzer Army a battle honour earned in Blood. Brest is taken by amphibious landing, with half a German infantry army now in control of the city and behind French and British lines, the port was taken intact.

[cpdeyoung]

Posted in Game 25 thread :

1) In Game 23 we have Germany Japan and Italy in a Axis against, at the moment UK France and the US with the Soviets in the wings. So My memory of Risk somewhat differs from yours but that sounds something like the 2nd World War. Except of course the US seems to have escaped the constraints of neutrality.

2) With respect when you say enter undefended, that still requires a DOW on the USA releasing the US from neutrality. In the case of the Soviets it was a faux war, such wars are against house rules.

3) That may well be the case, after all Germany did not start the war.

4)I refer you to 1) game 23 is a lot closer to the actual sides of WW2 then some of the previous games of GD1938 the end game may differ, but at least it will be a war to the bitter end, rather than one nation achieving a fairly shallow geographic victory, and everyone else packing up and going home in 1942.

5) There is a enormous difference between Germany giving away two colonial colonies that it has obtained due to Dutch surrender, and the USA circumventing its neutrality with a false war against another major power. Unless you feel that the USA should not be burdened with neutrality and I am quite happy to consider a game without such constraints, the Politics have been fun in GD1938 but if you were honest then you would admit that it has always been the players that have dictated the twists and turns in game, the few scripted events having little or no impact on the course of some games, there are a myriad of events that made up WW2 its futile to script a game to get a re run where is the fun in that.

[cpdeyoung]

1. Your faux war with your current ally Japan in game 24 is a case in point. You made peace with Japan, then allied with them, and explained it as a way for :

our two mighty nations to further their national goals.

My peace with the USSR after they entered Finland "furthered our goals". (see : good for goose, good for gander)

2. I did not declare war. You could have and decided not to do so. Larry did. I made peace with Larry and I would have made peace with you. This was not an attack by an ally, which neither of you were. Larry and I did not plot against you. I created a situation where I thought one of you would violate Finnish-American neutrality and one of you did.

3. New player. A experienced player would not have declared war, and I think you agree about that.

4.

but at least it will be a war to the bitter end, rather than one nation achieving a fairly shallow geographic victory, and everyone else packing up and going home in 1942.

I have no idea what Game you are referring to here. What nation is going to win what war by 1942? What narrow geographical victory? Where? Games 23 and 24 are new VC games. "Geographical victory" does not apply to a new VC game.

If you mean Game 25, the actual players in that game are working out a way to handle an issue on Turn 2. Let it go a bit further before predicting the outcome.

5.

There is a enormous difference between Germany giving away two colonial colonies that it has obtained due to Dutch surrender, and the USA circumventing its neutrality with a false war against another major power. Unless you feel that the USA should not be burdened with neutrality and I am quite happy to consider a game without such constraints, the Politics have been fun in GD1938 but if you were honest then you would admit that it has always been the players that have dictated the twists and turns in game, the few scripted events having little or no impact on the course of some games, there are a myriad of events that made up WW2 its futile to script a game to get a re run where is the fun in that.

if you were honest

I honestly think there is a place for players who want to have a GD1938 that has a pattern like that we are attempting in the three player game to have "fun". Really, honest.

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

1) You are a fan of spurious examples, Japan and China have been at war since 1936 the game starts in 1938, there has in fact been a long and bloody war, and as we start the game in 1938 its a completely misleading comment to refer to peace between Japan and China as a Faux War.

2) Getting tired of this explanation it requires a DOW of war that releases the US from neutrality. The only reason for this charade is just that, to release the USA from Neutrality, it is not a serious attempt for the US to gain bases in Europe, and as the Soviets normally end up on the same side as the US if the German player is up to scratch. It is a deal done that requires a DOW a False War and Breaking of one of the cornerstones of the game US initial Neutrality. And as a side benefit it gives the Soviet Union Finland for free with no repercussions so its a win win for the USA and USSR only trouble is it is not allowed under house rules that have as far as I know not been suspended.

3) No argument there but a mistake is a mistake and It may well have worked out for the British and French the Italians report great losses to the Italian navy caught on the hop, and I find the British and French player may lack experience at this MOD but is a excellent GD1938 player. I am not sure I would do as well in my first game.

4) Try game 22 our last game where China was gifted victory by its Allies ending the game in 1942 a game with a tremendous amount of play still left in it.

I was not referring to game 25 but game 23, though if the same gambit is being used in game 25, then that is for the players in that game to take issue with or not.

5) Its none of my concern or Business what happens in game 25. All reference is to game 23.

[cpdeyoung]

Interesting points Ironduke.

Thanks for sharing!

Chuck

[ironduke1955]

Thanks for sharing!

a sarcastic phrase meaning "that was really gross/inappropriate/stupid and you're an idiot." Comes from group therapy, where everyone is encouraged to share their feelings and is recognized for sharing.

Same to you friend.

[ironduke1955]

Now what to do with the eight hundred pound Gorilla in the room.

The USA has broken Neutrality with the use of a False War breaking house rules, that has eventually been established. So from 1938 the USA was supplying the British and French making the U-Boat war in the Atlantic irrelevant. Also several thousand Production Points that should be used on breaking US neutrality are now being used on R&D and Unit production and economic development. So do we continue this game I would like a consensus from other players. Japan Italy China and the UK/France, my own vote goes to voiding game 23 of GD1938. I believe the USSR supported the actions of the US player, so no need to ask the USSR.

[baloo7777]

Aren't we winning? Germany-Italy-Japan I mean?

[cpdeyoung]

I realize Tom is not asking Larry and I for our opinion.

For the record I hope game 23 continues.

Chuck

[MrLongleg]

Hey, why all this hostility? It is only a game, and I am liking it - although I am beaten in France. I made some beginners mistakes, since I never played this mod before. I don't mind to continue...

[ironduke1955]

We may be winning at the moment and at this stage of the game we should be if we were losing in 1940 then it is going to be a very short game, I have a opportunity to throttle the British Isles as I have naval supremacy, but what the Germans did not have to deal with is a by their own admission a huge US navy made larger by the production directed into units as opposed to breaking neutrality. And that the USA can directly ship supplies into its allies France and the UK, and the only way the Germans can stop the US is by a DOW on the US, and that is just what the US is waiting for.

And all of the above has come about due to a breaking of a House Rule, so the game has been skewed in favour of the US the house rules are there to prevent such a development. I have seen players get annoyed about Albania changing hands between Italy and Germany this is pretty much of the scale.

Point is that this is a game changer giving the US a huge advantage, and it is against the house rules of the game. The repercussions may not be felt for a few months but the Japanese and Germans navies will have a hell of a job containing the US now. The Italians not so much as the main effects will be in the Atlantic and the Pacific Oceans.

[ironduke1955]

Can I have just a straight yes or no to continue or end game 23.

So far

Continue cpdeyoung Falco Haudrauf1962 Bombur and I guess Larry

End Ironduke

Votes please

Ok continue it is the consensus that something dubious has happened but due to hours invested we continue.

[falco148]

Have kept up to date on everything that's been happening here. On the one hand it does appear that Chuck has bent the house rules for his sides advantage. On the
other hand I feel theres been too many hours gone into this from everybody to throw it away now.

I guess that means I would like to continue but only for the reason outlined above.

[MrLongleg]

continue, as I have said in my last post...

[Bombur]

I vote for continuation of the game, however, I think we must have a house rule to prevent activation of USA eith fake DOW. My idea is that the country who DOW´s the USA before neutrality is broken cannot make an alliance with USA in the game (it means the offending nation won´t take any advantage from early USA activation, quite the opposite).

[LJBurstyn]

If anyone is interested I would like to continue the game.

BTW: I announced early that I would be taking over Finland. The USA beat me to it because I had to take over the Baltic Countries first.

[baloo7777]

I vote to continue, but I agree it seems like the system was 'gamed' to get the USA into the war.