Manpower bug, noper just understanding how things work.

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chaos45
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by chaos45 »

tracking updates are good and I spent a fair amount of time analyzing the logistics screen---it help you make some key decisions IMO.

As to my cluelessness on the system but figuring out how it worked well IDK...its a tough game for anyone to tweak things on to make fixes and adjustments because a small adjustment can have massive effects in a game that has so many calculations over 200+ turns.

Could the allies be in Berlin by the end of 1944....actually yes. Historically they honestly thought they would be in Berlin by Xmas. Same can be said of an early win by the Soviets. Even in Berlin Hitler and the Nazis part thought it was going to be all over by the end of 1944.....think they termed it a miracle when the allies on both fronts halted that winter instead of continuing on to Berlin....now this was mainly because of logistics constraints of the allies but the Germans didnt realize that at the time....and it gave them a chance to regroup and remain some German formations to re-form weakened fronts on both sides that managed to keep holding as long as the weather was bad....but all German Generals knew by 1944 the war was lost....its why suicide by enemy fire started to become more common of German officers that knew they were likely to face trial for what they did in the war.
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Peltonx
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Peltonx »

So we agree
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Peltonx
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

tracking updates are good and I spent a fair amount of time analyzing the logistics screen---it help you make some key decisions IMO.

As to my cluelessness on the system but figuring out how it worked well IDK...its a tough game for anyone to tweak things on to make fixes and adjustments because a small adjustment can have massive effects in a game that has so many calculations over 200+ turns.

Could the allies be in Berlin by the end of 1944....actually yes. Historically they honestly thought they would be in Berlin by Xmas. Same can be said of an early win by the Soviets. Even in Berlin Hitler and the Nazis part thought it was going to be all over by the end of 1944.....think they termed it a miracle when the allies on both fronts halted that winter instead of continuing on to Berlin....now this was mainly because of logistics constraints of the allies but the Germans didnt realize that at the time....and it gave them a chance to regroup and remain some German formations to re-form weakened fronts on both sides that managed to keep holding as long as the weather was bad....but all German Generals knew by 1944 the war was lost....its why suicide by enemy fire started to become more common of German officers that knew they were likely to face trial for what they did in the war.

Like the PM I sent you

Turn on the stuff that's between your ears.

Really really not that hard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl4dEAtxo0M

The really cool part is you linked me to all the WitW exploits and you really don't get that you did


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Icier
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Icier »

yep..it is.

checked your original posting & realised you had correct screen up. Didn't want to confuse other
readers.
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EwaldvonKleist
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by EwaldvonKleist »

ORIGINAL: morvael

It will be easier to track this in WitE 1.09.01:

Code: Select all

ARMY STATUS
 
 COUNTRY             ACTIVE   TRANSFER   DISABLED      UNITS        TOE    BALANCE
 Germany                 15      14188     652170    2736972    4107757   -1370785
 Finland                  1        523      36801     269788     285717     -15929
 Italy                 1465       1243      19901     325848     341158     -15310
 Rumania                  0       3568      89250     530413     608245     -77832
 Hungary                  1       1691      76688     450645     466550     -15905
 Slovakia               278        378       7196      40727      40805        -78

Good thing, but how to read this morvael?
Units=number of men in units.
TOE=number of men if every unit is on 100% TOE.
Disabled=number of disabled men (A small number of them, 1% or so, returns from this pool every turn right?)
What does transfer and active mean?

Denniss
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Denniss »

Active/transfer is pool, disabled the current disabled pool, units is men in units, TOE intended strength of all units and balance the difference between TOE strength and men in units
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Stelteck
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Stelteck »

It is very hard to understand thread like this.

Please explain your point each time there is one. Not everyone know the background of probable years of discussion and yelling... [:'(]

For that i understand :

- Pelton found he got a tons of replacement in german stocks in 1943.
- Morvael explained the reason : Squads decrease in men as historicaly so free manpower return to the pool.

After that, there was a lot of post that i do not understand at all, about WITW, getting to leningrad in 6 turns, taking berlin as allies in 1944 or things like that.

For the first point, There may be an issue if the 1943 squad with 9 men is as efficient as the 1939 squad of 10. Because then germany get free manpower at this point from front line squads without decrease in efficiency.

Brakes are for cowards !!
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morvael
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by morvael »

I think a 9 man squad has 2.7 base CV as compared to 3 of a 10 man squad.
Stelteck
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Stelteck »

Nice so i'am not sûre there is a problem left.
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chaos45
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by chaos45 »

The problem is you end up with almost 5M total Germans to be in the field in late 1943.....sounds like either the combat system is being much to lenient on the Axis for combat losses or somewhere the system is glitched and giving the Germans far to many men.

An you can see by the game this is coming from the Germans have been fighting hard since the start and are past Stalingrad- this is from a player vs player game that is in the warroom section I'm pretty sure.

Again seems pretty un-believable to me and means somewhere something has gone wrong either in combat results/attrition for axis being much to low now or they are getting far to many replacements.
Stelteck
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Stelteck »

I agree with you it looks not historical at all. Maybe some tweaks can be done about casuaties in attack, things like that.

But we also have to consider the fact that now, all german play with mild winter to avoid consequences of first russian winter, and usually do none of the historical mistake the german did historically in 1941 and 1942.

So it could explain in part why german situation looks so good.

The same apply to soviet too, it is really rare than in game looses reach historical looses of 4 millions the first year, and if it happens, the soviet side is considered as doomed. Although IRL the soviet were not doomed at all and won despite these levels of casualties.



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chaos45
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by chaos45 »

The reason the soviets are doomed if they take historical losses is because the Germans dont take historical losses....and as well the Soviets dont get historical replacement rates lol.

The numbers in the game at this point are all just roughly rigged to give a good game---which isnt bad IMO....however it does look like the several recent patches which mainly put in helps to the Axis have went to far and the game is becoming unbalanced because of it.
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Michael T
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Michael T »

Hence my comment about all units being 100% TOE. I agree with Chaos here. Losses for the Germans is too low, and to a degree the Russians as well. But I believe a fix is coming.
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Peltonx
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

The problem is you end up with almost 5M total Germans to be in the field in late 1943.....sounds like either the combat system is being much to lenient on the Axis for combat losses or somewhere the system is glitched and giving the Germans far to many men.

An you can see by the game this is coming from the Germans have been fighting hard since the start and are past Stalingrad- this is from a player vs player game that is in the warroom section I'm pretty sure.

Again seems pretty un-believable to me and means somewhere something has gone wrong either in combat results/attrition for axis being much to low now or they are getting far to many replacements.

Your all wrong.

PM to morveal your mail box is full.

Choas understands.

There is no "exploit" or anything wrong.

Just better understanding of our game and then testing it out WitW and WitE.

Basicly look at your AAR and my last few.

Basicly a complete understanding of how things work

manpower/logistics/airpower how and when units are up graded ect.
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Peltonx
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Peltonx »

The issue is I simply fight allot less then everyone else.

You can increase the losses all you want it will have zero effect on me NONE zip zero.

morveal you have increased losses the last few patchs and I have more men then before while if you look at other AAR's

They have fewer troops look at your AAR.

Your increased losses tweaks have worked on everyone else, but not me.

Why?

I fight less now then I did before, but cause the same amount of loses to Russia.

I have thanks to other people like Choas/MT/Sapper/TDV/time spent playing WitW ect

have a complete understanding of the total game not just one area.

Increase losses all you want it will have no effect on my OOB because of my tactics and complete understanding of the game.

I don't need spread sheets or know game code to see how things work.

Which is why I have stated WitE/WitW/2.0 will all play the same for me as they all fall into 2by3 general theory of how things "work".

Nerf away if you must, but the game is WAD.






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Peltonx
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

The reason the soviets are doomed if they take historical losses is because the Germans dont take historical losses....and as well the Soviets dont get historical replacement rates lol.

The numbers in the game at this point are all just roughly rigged to give a good game---which isnt bad IMO....however it does look like the several recent patches which mainly put in helps to the Axis have went to far and the game is becoming unbalanced because of it.

Its not out of balance MT is winning easly and so do many good Russian players

The issue is most Russian players are not very good at all.

Don't cherry pick look at all the games.

As most Western Allied players in WitW simply have no idea how over powered the allies are.

WitW and WitE are WAD, the issue is the players most of the time don't WAD

and simply have no idea how things are working - same goes for most of the people testing it.
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chaos45
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by chaos45 »

but by just looking at one game you are cherry picking Pelton.

In fact most of the recent games posted have seen the Germans do in general much better than historical by large margins....not just German games you are playing.
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Icier
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Icier »

ORIGINAL: Pelton

The issue is I simply fight allot less then everyone else.

You can increase the losses all you want it will have zero effect on me NONE zip zero.

morveal you have increased losses the last few patchs and I have more men then before while if you look at other AAR's

They have fewer troops look at your AAR.

Your increased losses tweaks have worked on everyone else, but not me.

Why?

Pelton is correct. Most Russian players have read all the AAR's and now its ingrained in their
playing psyche to retreat as quickly as possible, avoid conflict & wait for Winter and then attack the Germans.
And there is the catch.
Average to good players can hurt the Germans, the rest..well.
So if the Germans are not punished, they are well situated to handle the Russians in 42/43.
I noticed that the production posting is late 43, not sure who he is playing, but i will bet the
Russian army is close to 5Million..even with all there losses.
So the quicker the Russians retreat, the better the condition of the German army & the only thing
they then have to worry is to get their logistics/supply in place.



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Peltonx
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Peltonx »

ORIGINAL: chaos45

but by just looking at one game you are cherry picking Pelton.

In fact most of the recent games posted have seen the Germans do in general much better than historical by large margins....not just German games you are playing.

The issue is people are not WAD.

You and MT are but few others as Russians.

This is what screwed the game up before morveal took over. 2by3 tried to make even bad Russian players good which made the game HORRIBLE - even good german players could only get to the rivers and Russians were on offensive by summer of 42.

Tring to hand hold the poor players is not how to design a game.

Kinda whats wrong with most of the country " I know Johny on got a 65 on the final, but he tried hard so I gave him a 90"

The old every one gets a trophy. Why play the game then?

Game is WAD, people are not.
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Michael T
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RE: Manpower bug?

Post by Michael T »

I think wait for morvaels next patch. He has tweaked losses a bit. And over a lot of turns it might be all that is needed.

My observations are not based on Pelton's game. They are based on my own two recent games and a lot of testing.
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