So few AI games?

The Campaign Series: Middle East 1948-1985 is a new turn-based, tactical wargame that focuses on conflicts in the Middle East.

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Phoenix100
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So few AI games?

Post by Phoenix100 »

Having read about the adaptive AI and such like I was looking forward to playing against the AI, but it seems there aren't so many scenarios (as opposed to the 3 campaigns) designed to be played single player. Or am I reading it wrong? Wanting to do some tank battles from the Yom Kippur War, for example, I sifted through everything from 1973 and found, iirc, only 2 playable against the AI. Al the rest say '[H2H]' in the scenario description. Is that really what that means - '[H2H]' - that there's no AI scripts in those scenarios and so they can't be played against the AI?

Thanks,

Peter
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berto
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by berto »


There is an A/I, including an Adaptive A/I <scenario>.ai file, for every officially supported scenario (supplied with the base game, as opposed to modded ones such as you see in the MODS folder).

Rest assured that every scenario can be played against the A/I. (Whether or not it has an Adaptive A/I <scenario>.ai file. If a scenario doesn't have its own customized .ai file, the generic init.ai is used instead.)

Scenarios marked "H2H" are scenarios where the scenario A/I is thought perhaps to be weak, where you will probably have a more satisfying game vs. a human opponent.

Having said that, in my experience, many of the so-called "H2H" scenarios are more than playable vs. the A/I. In fact, not a few times the A/I in "H2H" scenarios has beat me!
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Phoenix100 »

Ah. Ok. That's good. I'll go back and look at the list again. Thanks, Berto.
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by budd »

It is the one small disappointment i have with the game and i too was surprised by the majority of the scenarios labeled H2H.I mostly only play scenarios up to size 6 anything bigger gets to be too many units for my enjoyment and i get suckier[:)] at playing. I have played quite a few of the H2H ones size 6 and under and it really is a hit and miss bag, unfortunately you only realize that after having spent your time playing the scenario. I wish now that i would kept a list of the ones i found satisfactory against the AI to pass on to others. All in all its a small disappointment with a wonderful game and as Berto said some of the H2H scenarios will put up a good battle.
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Jason Petho »

Thanks for the heads up, budd.

I'll make a point of adding more scenarios versus HAL for future games and future UPDATES.

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budd
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by budd »

No problem Jason. After buying the game and seeing all the H2H scenarios went back and looked and East Front has a lot of H2H labeled scenarios also same with West front and Rising Sun. West front probably has the most AI labeled scenarios, I just never noticed. Just thought of a wishlist request how about a scenario filter by best played as option.
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Jason Petho »

No worries at all!

Even the poll that is listed above suggests that way more HAL scenarios are required in the future. Which I don't mind, just a matter of finding interesting scenarios for them

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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Jason Petho »

Budd,

Of the games versus HAL that you have played, what kinds of scenarios did you prefer/enjoy?
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by demyansk »

Good points, Jason - could you possibly use different colors or something else to view the single player scenarios? For me, I also like to play AI.

By the way, do I understand correctly, that you can play the AI in all the scenarios?

Nice game
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by budd »

medium sized meeting engagements, armor heavy are my favorite. I also like probes or delays with follow on reinforcements and attacking fortified urban or city battles which is probably what HAL does best in any game. I like battles of maneuver with options. I also like a desperate defensive battle that presents options for counter attacking either thru some small follow on force or if i handle my troops well. I like meeting engagements because of the unknown and it can turn out many different ways, probe to contact with an attack/assault or probe and going over on the defensive, pitched battles, fighting retreats ect. Although i prefer historical for context a good battle is a good battle. I always thought that with some good VP placement and smart, timely AI reinforcements entering at a good location you could have very good meeting engagements. Of course thats easy to say from this side of the keyboard[;)]
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by budd »

ORIGINAL: demjansk

Good points, Jason - could you possibly use different colors or something else to view the single player scenarios? For me, I also like to play AI.

By the way, do I understand correctly, that you can play the AI in all the scenarios?

Nice game
yes sir there all playable VS the AI.
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Jason Petho »

Thank you for the feedback, it helps a lot!
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Phoenix100 »

I would endorse that list that Budd gave, except for me I only like historical scenarios.

Heartened by your reassurances that all scenarios could be played against the AI I fired up Into the Valley of Tears. I was to play the IDF, who, as I understand from the history and the briefing, have a defensive role. I expected floods of enemy tanks. I played it through carefully a few rounds, nothing happened. So I started it again and just clicked through the turns, not bothering to move my Israeli forces, just to see what the enemy AI would do. It's a 20 turn scenario and the pic below is from turn 20. Absolutely nothing has happened. 2 enemy units spotted, though I'm not sure they actually moved to be spotted. No waves of tanks, no AI attack of any sort.



Image

So am I missing something?

Peter



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Phoenix100
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Phoenix100 »

The pic below gives the forces HAL had available to use:



Image

So what went wrong? Maybe this scenario doesn't have an AI file attached?

I loaded this game up as a hotseat game, thinking to get into side B hotseat, then activate the AI and see what happened, but only got a message saying AI not available when a modem used. There was no modem being used - I was playing hotseat?

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RE: So few AI games?

Post by berto »


The Adaptive A/I system is built atop the original John Tiller A/I. Without a <scenario>.ai file, the generic init.ai file applies. But in either case, they only serve to nudge or "adapt" the underlying JT A/I. It is still there and functioning in any case.

As with most game A/Is, not just JT's, the A/I doesn't do so well on the attack. It's a sad but inescapable fact that when playing against the A/I -- this game's, or any game's -- you will have a better game playing the attacker.

One thing you might try is A/I > Side A (or B) > Audacious, which will make the indicated A/I side a bit more "audacious".

You can also try tweaking A/I > Side A (or B) > Aggressiveness...

If you really want to dig deep, you can try to study and understand the Adaptive A/I system (see the doc in the Manual folder), then mod your own scenario .ai files. But note: If you do that, because the game normally references the encrypted .aix file, in order for the game to reference your customized unencrypted .ai file, you will need to use the -X NoEncryption option (see the game Manual).

The Adaptive A/I is a work-in-progress (isn't everything?). There are many more parameters we could, and will, add. But that's for the future.

The underlying legacy A/I is also a work-in-progress. It's on the to-do list to enhance it, but that too is for the future.

In the meantime, the best advice is: When playing vs. the A/I, you the human play the attacker. That's just the way it is.
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Phoenix100 »

Understood, Berto. Thanks.
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Crossroads »

For pure fun, it is fun to face an overwhelming, aggressive AI as well. Consider leaving your forces in two echelons for example, so you will have less forces available against the core of their forces. Or pick a scenario that otherwise difficult to defend. A little scenario with lots of fun as defender vs AI on Aggressive, try Picnit at Tel al Ful for instance [:)]
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Phoenix100 »

Nice recommendation, Crossroads. How on earth are you meant to survive as the IDF? A handful of Shermans v all those Pattons? Impossible, no?

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RE: So few AI games?

Post by Crossroads »

Most of time I don't [:D]

My favorite little vs-AI scenario for quick fun. Move together as a wolf pack, don't contest the VP hexes, instead hit them in the flanks, pick up lone straggles, that sort of thing. I don't use Armor Facing either, so more fun that way too as there's no easy rear shots [8D]

Into Africa! as IDF is another little favorite vs AI. This time you should see IDF victorious for most parts.
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RE: So few AI games?

Post by berto »


Playing vs. the A/I, I had a tough time of it playing the Retake Mount Hermon scenario. And a very tough time of it playing the Blunder at Tel Fakhar scenario. The latter is marked "[SIDE A]", which is what I played. The former is marked "[H2H]". There are plenty of so-called "H2H" scenarios suitable for vs. A/I play, if you choose the right side.
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