The Legend of Nemo

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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warspite1
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm



I've read that the Chief of Staff was, probably, the most important position in Napoleons Army. This because of the way that Napoleon gave orders. And, yes, Soult might not have been the best choice but there wasn't really time to test options. Nor to work things out.
warspite1

Well then maybe that naughty Napoleon should have remained on Elba....then he wouldn't have to worry about all that [;)]
Yes. Indeed. Why he even bothered to be born eludes me. [;)]
warspite1

I suspect millions of mothers in France and across Europe felt the same.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

Fleeing from Alba and taking control of France was impressive. And creating a new Army loyal to Napoleon was a feat as well.

Napoleon, as I understand it, was used to do much himself and must have been overworked to do it. And, I suspect, that there were many that he didn't trust since so many had turned on him before. He was not a young man any more and organized a 'fast' campaign. I do not think he planned to give that much 'power' to Ney but I think he felt somewhat tired. So he needed a brave, energetic man, that he trusted, that he hadn't assigned a important role to. Ney fit the bill.
warspite1

Well there is enough here to create a new thread all of its own [:)]

Fascinating subject.
Indeed. A new thread is needed.

And I need new books to read up on the Napoleonic wars.

And more fictional books about that time. Rereading Sharpe one more time will not do the trick.
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett
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warspite1
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

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ORIGINAL: Anachro

Hahah, I don't mind. I was being playful myself. Don't forget Edmund Burke was Ireland's greatest political philosopher.
warspite1

Ireland has produced many a great person - they are either Irish or 'British' depending upon when they lived - although even when part of the Union, they were always Irish in the same way as I am English. But for reasons that thankfully no longer apply and are consigned to history, some Irish wanted to be anything but - and the Iron Duke was one of those.

BTW, the British General staff in WWII wouldn't exist without the Irish!

But whatever. Wellington may have been a rubbish Prime Minister, but he was a wonderful British military hero!! [:)]
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

Fleeing from Alba and taking control of France was impressive. And creating a new Army loyal to Napoleon was a feat as well.

Napoleon, as I understand it, was used to do much himself and must have been overworked to do it. And, I suspect, that there were many that he didn't trust since so many had turned on him before. He was not a young man any more and organized a 'fast' campaign. I do not think he planned to give that much 'power' to Ney but I think he felt somewhat tired. So he needed a brave, energetic man, that he trusted, that he hadn't assigned a important role to. Ney fit the bill.
warspite1

Well there is enough here to create a new thread all of its own [:)]

Fascinating subject.
Indeed. A new thread is needed.

And I need new books to read up on the Napoleonic wars.

And more fictional books about that time. Rereading Sharpe one more time will not do the trick.
warspite1

Well how about you buy Wars of Napoleon and we can do an AAR while we try and learn it together?
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Anachro »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Ireland has produced many a great person - they are either Irish or 'British' depending upon when they lived - although even when part of the Union, they were always Irish in the same way as I am English...BTW, the British General staff in WWII wouldn't exist without the Irish!

Quite a fluid area of shifting allegiances and countries, Ireland. My great-grandfather fought in the Irish War of Independence...then fought in WW1 for the US Army (how he got his citizenship)...then fought for anti-treaty forces during the Irish Civil War. And then ironically, after all this, my grandfather was in the British Civil Defense Service in WW2 while working in the UK.

And yes, I would agree with you that Wellington would take being called Irish as an insult.
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Orm »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well how about you buy Wars of Napoleon and we can do an AAR while we try and learn it together?
Brilliant idea.

I had planned to buy it when, or if, it gets on sale. Now it might be sooner. But maybe we should wait until one of our games has run its course?
Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett
US87891
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by US87891 »

ORIGINAL: Anachro
ORIGINAL: warspite1
Ireland has produced many a great person - they are either Irish or 'British' depending upon when they lived - although even when part of the Union, they were always Irish in the same way as I am English...BTW, the British General staff in WWII wouldn't exist without the Irish!
Quite a fluid aea of shifting allegiances and countries, Ireland. My great-grandfather fought in the Irish War of Independence...then fought in WW1 for the US Army (how he got his citizenship)...then fought for anti-treaty forces during the Irish Civil War. And then ironically, after all this, my grandfather was in the British Civil Defense Service in WW2 while working in the UK.
And just for fun, Rory McIlroy is from Northern Ireland, and proud of being Irish, but he peed a lot of people off by his registration as a Brit at the Walker, Masters, PGA and Ryder. Just goes to show ...

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Chickenboy »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm
the fact he was totally and utterly out generaled and out thought by the Iron Duke.
And the fact that Blucher held is promise and showed up in time.
warspite1

Not really. Unless my memory is fading he was considerably later than the 2pm he promised Wellington. Don't get me wrong, the Prussians presence was important - but Wellington stood based on the promise that the Prussians would arrive - it wasn't the case (as some like to portray) that Wellington was lucky the Prussians turned up.

I think shared credit for a near run thing is in order. But for the presence of the Prussians, the day would have been lost. They allowed a combined victory where none would have existed. Why is that so hard to acknowledge?
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by geofflambert »

ORIGINAL: Orm

Fleeing from Alba and taking control of France was impressive. And creating a new Army loyal to Napoleon was a feat as well.

Napoleon, as I understand it, was used to do much himself and must have been overworked to do it. And, I suspect, that there were many that he didn't trust since so many had turned on him before. He was not a young man any more and organized a 'fast' campaign. I do not think he planned to give that much 'power' to Ney but I think he felt somewhat tired. So he needed a brave, energetic man, that he trusted, that he hadn't assigned a important role to. Ney fit the bill.

What's most amazing is that Nappy could barely be understood in French. Reminds me a little of Adolph who would endeavor to speak High German (Prussian) with his officers but would inevitably break into Bavarian, which is sort of like Appalachian in the States.

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warspite1
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: US87891

ORIGINAL: Anachro
ORIGINAL: warspite1
Ireland has produced many a great person - they are either Irish or 'British' depending upon when they lived - although even when part of the Union, they were always Irish in the same way as I am English...BTW, the British General staff in WWII wouldn't exist without the Irish!
Quite a fluid aea of shifting allegiances and countries, Ireland. My great-grandfather fought in the Irish War of Independence...then fought in WW1 for the US Army (how he got his citizenship)...then fought for anti-treaty forces during the Irish Civil War. And then ironically, after all this, my grandfather was in the British Civil Defense Service in WW2 while working in the UK.
And just for fun, Rory McIlroy is from Northern Ireland, and proud of being Irish, but he peed a lot of people off by his registration as a Brit at the Walker, Masters, PGA and Ryder. Just goes to show ...

Matt
warspite1

But sadly poor Rory - like many in the Province - will always run the risk of 'peeing off' someone.

His registration as British should hardly have been difficult for those he 'pee'd off' to understand on the basis he is from Northern Ireland - which is part of the United Kingdom. But he then said he would play for Ireland at the Olympics, which no doubt 'pee'd' another set of people off. I feel sorry for him - whatever he does he will offend somebody.

A sad state of affairs but one that has existed for far too long.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Anachro »

You know what'd be a fun game? The Jacobite rising of 1745...that's what! I had an ancestor on the losing side of Culloden...would be fun to right that wrong!
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warspite1
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm


And the fact that Blucher held is promise and showed up in time.
warspite1

Not really. Unless my memory is fading he was considerably later than the 2pm he promised Wellington. Don't get me wrong, the Prussians presence was important - but Wellington stood based on the promise that the Prussians would arrive - it wasn't the case (as some like to portray) that Wellington was lucky the Prussians turned up.

I think shared credit for a near run thing is in order. But for the presence of the Prussians, the day would have been lost. They allowed a combined victory where none would have existed. Why is that so hard to acknowledge?
warspite1

I have no certain knowledge that the day would have been lost without the Prussians (no one does) - although on the basis that it was a close run thing with them (even if they were late to the party, Napoleon still had to take action from around 1pm when they were seen in the distance) it would seem possible that at best the two sides would have fought themselves to a standstill in the absence of the Prussians and - depending on whether Napoleon exploited the opportunity - may even have won the day.

However, there is one thing of which I do have certain knowledge. The revisionist idea that Blucher and the Prussians won the battle. That is as ridiculous as not giving the Prussians any recognition for their part in the victory. It rather ignores the contribution of the British, German and Dutch-Belgians that had been fighting the French for hours. If the Prussians won it as some authors now like to tell us, it rather begs the question what was going on between 11:20am and 3:30pm when the Prussians first engaged the French on the extreme left?

Wellington knew the limitations of his army - the lack of cavalry and artillery amongst them. It wasn't 'lucky' for Wellington that Blucher happened to show up to save the day, he fought on the basis that Blucher would arrive and his men - German, British and Dutch-Belgian - were fighting and dying long before the Prussians arrived.

So to be clear. What I rail against is not the idea that the Prussians did not play a part in the victory - it is the absurd notion that they alone won it - and that Wellington was lucky because he hadn't planned for the Prussian arrival.


Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by mind_messing »

ORIGINAL: Anachro

I would just like to state that Wellesley was Irish and therefore the Irish saved Europe from the baguette menace. This wasn't the first time they'd saved civilization.

Most of his army was Irish in origin anyways, so the Irish did save Europe.

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, MindMessing, my wife is in Scotland even as I type. She flew into Glasgow a few days back. She's in Edinburgh today. Her telephone calls have been effusive with delight in all things Scotland and the graciousnes of the Scots people.


Yeah, there's a reason why Glasgow has been Europe's murder capital, European city of culture and friendliest city in Europe at various times in the last twenty odd years.
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by Chickenboy »

Aye. So without the timely contributions of the Prussians the battle would have most likely been lost. Ergo-they should share in the credit for the victory. Yes, they didn't do it alone for goodness sake, but I doubt the victory in their absence.
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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by geofflambert »

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

So what was Soult doing as Chief of Staff. Okay he couldn't chose Berthier as he was laid out like strawberry jam, but surely he could have put Soult in a position where his experience of facing the British could make a difference??
I've read that the Chief of Staff was, probably, the most important position in Napoleons Army. This because of the way that Napoleon gave orders. And, yes, Soult might not have been the best choice but there wasn't really time to test options. Nor to work things out.
warspite1

Well then maybe that naughty Napoleon should have remained on Elba....then he wouldn't have to worry about all that [;)]

I've heard that Soult was the only one competent to do the job he was given. If somehow they could've gotten Davout to the battle things might have been very different.
I usually think of Longstreet as a Davout with more sense. If you replaced Grouchy with Ney and Ney with Davout, well, whaddya think? I probably would have had Grouchy handle Quat Bras.

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

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ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Aye. So without the timely contributions of the Prussians the battle would have most likely been lost. Ergo-they should share in the credit for the victory. Yes, they didn't do it alone for goodness sake, but I doubt the victory in their absence.
warspite1

Yes - which is what I've said. But not what certain revisionists say. But hey maybe the German author who wrote Waterloo: The German victory (or something similar) was just pissed because the only regiment that deserted - and I mean simply walked off the battlefield en masse - was German? Wellington had some excellent German troops - he also had units like that cavalry mob to try and form an army with. Or maybe he's got all upset because the Prussians lost at Wavre and Ligny and needed Wellington to help them achieve victory. Well one out of three ain't bad. See Mr Hofschroer or whatever your name is, we can all be childish.
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Orm



I've read that the Chief of Staff was, probably, the most important position in Napoleons Army. This because of the way that Napoleon gave orders. And, yes, Soult might not have been the best choice but there wasn't really time to test options. Nor to work things out.
warspite1

Well then maybe that naughty Napoleon should have remained on Elba....then he wouldn't have to worry about all that [;)]

I've heard that Soult was the only one competent to do the job he was given. If somehow they could've gotten Davout to the battle things might have been very different.
I usually think of Longstreet as a Davout with more sense. If you replaced Grouchy with Ney and Ney with Davout, well, whaddya think? I probably would have had Grouchy handle Quat Bras.
warspite1

Maybe. But then if Wellington was allowed to pick the men he wanted then maybe that would have changed things too? There were many men from the Peninsular Campaign he wanted but.....
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by geofflambert »

Here's my plan. Grouchy screens the left. No assault on Hougamont. Maybe no early assault on La Haye Saint. Don't worry too much about the battery fire from your left, as the balls will just go plop in the mud with little damage delivered. Begin the assault before the field dries out and cavalry charges can occur. Whomever is in charge on the right blocks the roads so the Prussians can't join the battle, rather than attacking fortified positions in towns at Wavre.

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by warspite1 »

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

ORIGINAL: Anachro

I would just like to state that Wellesley was Irish and therefore the Irish saved Europe from the baguette menace. This wasn't the first time they'd saved civilization.

Most of his army was Irish in origin anyways, so the Irish did save Europe.
warspite1

Not so. The number of Irish and Scottish were out of proportion to their population for reasons we know well, but no most of the army was not Irish. A recent study - believed to be as definitive as they can get - claims that 30% of Wellingtons 28,000 British troops were Irish. So yes, out of proportion to the country - but not the majority of the army [;)]
Now Maitland, now's your time!

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RE: The Legend of Nemo

Post by geofflambert »

Don't forget the Nassauers and the Brunswickers. Those Braunschweigers, half of them anyway, were elite.

And they were stationed at the keyest of key points on the ridge.

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