Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests

[Coiler12]

Some more small issues with the British hypothetical ships, this time the "escort cruisers":

Ship #1502 C 15 Agincourt:
-For "Detection", it has a 50 second OODA cycle, and every other ship in the database I saw has a 15 second one. Likely just a typo.
-Nothing to do with the entry itself, but I'd recommend that in the title, the subtitle "Escort Cruiser Series 21" (sources here and for a less official one, the Shipbucket entry.

Ship #389 C 19 Lion:
-As with the bigger, later cousin, they should get a subtitle "Escort Cruiser Series 9". Shipbucket source and Brown's Rebuilding the Royal Navy.
-The ship currently has the same dimensions (and thus damage points) as the Series 21. In fact, it was considerably smaller. Friedman's British Cruisers, Two World Wars and After, pg 317, lists the dimensions for a Sea King capable variant as 6500 tons displacement, 485 feet long, and a beam of 59.3 feet.
-While the ship itself is too big, the aviation facilities are too small. The design requirements/sketches (Friedman British Cruisers, pg. 317. Brown Rebuilding the Royal Navy, pg. 61) were for eight Wessexes. In-game, the Small-sized hangar/deck can't fit any, and can only hold a maximum of four Wasps.

[.Sirius]

ORIGINAL: Coiler12

A few fairly small issues with some of the hypothetical British ships in the CWDB:

Ship #1913 Type 43
-Lacks aviation facilities that the historical design had.
Source here. (Pad on the center of the ship and a hangar capable of holding a Sea King or two Lynxes).

Ship #1501 Type 17
-Lacks the 4.5 inch MkVIII gun that was to be on the design.

Fixed

[.Sirius]

ORIGINAL: maple61

Hi .Sirius,
The “Sikorsky H-19 Chickasaw” type helicopters in the CWDB are too big. This precludes them from being loaded onto some ships that actually used them, such as the HMCS Bonaventure. Please change from “Large Aircraft” to “Medium Aircraft”.
FWIW, the dimensions listed in the DB are also wrong. Actual aircraft length is 12.92 m with a 16.16 m rotor diameter. Sub types with these issues include the HH-19G, SH-19A,B,C,D, UH-19A thru F and the HO4S-2 and -3 as used by multiple countries. The near identical Westland Whirlwind used by the UK is already listed as a “Medium Aircraft”, so it is fine.
Thanks for the hard work on the CWDB!
Cam

Fixed

[msc]

Would you please take a look to following untis in the cw database, perhaps an update is possible?:

#1898 - P 6092 Zobel [Type 142A] 1972-1984
Radar was KH 14/9 instead of 3RM-20
ESM was DR 875 instead of NO/VR
(possibly chaff/flares on board)
40mm - total about 3100 rnds on board! (144 rnds immediately available on each turret)
40mm/L70 Type Bofors MEL DSTY 58 radar controlled

#840 - P 6092 Zobel [Type 142A] 1962-1967
Before conversion/upgrade these boats were known as "Type 142" ("142A" after conversion)
with following equipment
conversion in 1970-1972, so Typ 142 should be in 1962-1972
"Generic optical sight"? - Galileo OGR 7 was carried
40mm - total about 3100 rnds on board! (144 rnds immediately available on each turret)
torpedos: Mk8 straightrunners, 4 tubes, max. loadout 7 torpedos (4 in tubes, 3 reserve)
photo - no M.20 radome on the "Type 142", 4 tubes instead of 2 (Type 142 looked similar
to "Jaguar class")

#841 - P 6092 Zobel [Type 142A] 1967
In the 60ies different experimental outfits for testing Standard-ASM and Seacat were tested. But no operational boat with the outfit of dbid#841

#838 - P 6059 Jaguar 1958-1967
torpedos: Mk8 straightrunners, 4 tubes, max. loadout 7 torpedos (4 in tubes, 3 reserve)

#839 - P 6059 Jaguar 1967-1978
radar: M.20 was not on board! only KH 14/9
Galileo OGR 7
ESM DR 875
torpedos: Mk8 straightrunners, 4 tubes, max. loadout 7 torpedos (4 in tubes, 3 reserve)

#845 - M 1972 Lindau (Hunter)
reduced sweeping gear was on board
2x PAP 104 hunting drones
Galileo OGR 7
ESM DR 855

#848 - M 2650 Ariadne
MCM-gear is missing
Galileo OGR 7

[.Sirius]

ORIGINAL: msc

Would you please take a look to following untis in the cw database, perhaps an update is possible?:

#1898 - P 6092 Zobel [Type 142A] 1972-1984
Radar was KH 14/9 instead of 3RM-20
ESM was DR 875 instead of NO/VR
(possibly chaff/flares on board)
40mm - total about 3100 rnds on board! (144 rnds immediately available on each turret)
40mm/L70 Type Bofors MEL DSTY 58 radar controlled

#840 - P 6092 Zobel [Type 142A] 1962-1967
Before conversion/upgrade these boats were known as "Type 142" ("142A" after conversion)
with following equipment
conversion in 1970-1972, so Typ 142 should be in 1962-1972
"Generic optical sight"? - Galileo OGR 7 was carried
40mm - total about 3100 rnds on board! (144 rnds immediately available on each turret)
torpedos: Mk8 straightrunners, 4 tubes, max. loadout 7 torpedos (4 in tubes, 3 reserve)
photo - no M.20 radome on the "Type 142", 4 tubes instead of 2 (Type 142 looked similar
to "Jaguar class")

#841 - P 6092 Zobel [Type 142A] 1967
In the 60ies different experimental outfits for testing Standard-ASM and Seacat were tested. But no operational boat with the outfit of dbid#841

#838 - P 6059 Jaguar 1958-1967
torpedos: Mk8 straightrunners, 4 tubes, max. loadout 7 torpedos (4 in tubes, 3 reserve)

#839 - P 6059 Jaguar 1967-1978
radar: M.20 was not on board! only KH 14/9
Galileo OGR 7
ESM DR 875
torpedos: Mk8 straightrunners, 4 tubes, max. loadout 7 torpedos (4 in tubes, 3 reserve)

#845 - M 1972 Lindau (Hunter)
reduced sweeping gear was on board
2x PAP 104 hunting drones
Galileo OGR 7
ESM DR 855

#848 - M 2650 Ariadne
MCM-gear is missing
Galileo OGR 7

Updated

[wqc12345]

I'm a bit confused about the B-52D 1975 version vs. the B-52D 67-72 version?

I thought the big belly mod's occurred in 1965? For DB# 2775, this version of the D seems to be lacking the Rivet Rambler ECM upgrades?

The CWDB # for the B-52D 67-72 is #97 and the B-52D 75-82 is #2775

FROM http://www.vietnamwar.net/B-52bomber.htm SITE: Two B-52 units, the 320th Bomb Wing and the 2nd Bomb Wing, had their aircraft modified to carry "iron bombs," conventional high explosive bombs. After a second modification, each B-52 used in Vietnam could carry eighty-four 500-pound bombs internally and twenty-four 750-pound bombs on underwing racks, for a 3,000-mile nonstop range. The two bomb wings were deployed to operate from Guam as the 133rd Provisional Wing. Later, additional units were deployed to Thailand and Okinawa to reduce in-flight time, and thus warning time.

Another Site: http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_bombers/b52_10.html > the Air Force decided to convert most of its B-52Ds to conventional warfare capability for service in Southeast Asia. Foremost among the changes needed was to give the B-52D the ability to carry a significantly larger load of conventional bombs. This led to the Big Belly project which was begun in December of 1965. The project increased the internal bomb capacity from just 27 weapons to a maximum of 84 500-lb Mk 82 or 42 750 lb M117 conventional bombs. This was done by careful rearrangement of internal equipment, and did not change the outside of the aircraft. In addition, a further 24 bombs of either type could be carried on modified underwing bomb racks (originally designed for the carrying of Hound Dog cruise missiles and fitted with I-beam rack adapters and a pair of multiple ejection racks), bringing the maximum payload to 60,000 pounds of bombs, about 22,000 pounds more than the capacity of the B-52F.

Also, there is a PDF (http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/do ... 13-045.pdf) about linebacker II which outlines the above loadouts on the B-52's heading to Hanoi for the Christmas Bombings.

[cdnice]

I was playing with the CWDB last night and noticed that the HO4S-2 Horse Helicopters (Canada) are all considered large aircraft when trying to add them to the HMCS Bonaventure. The Bonaventure is limited to medium aircraft on the deck, hangar and elevators. Can these be changed to medium aircraft?

Would it also be possible to add a second version that allows for 34 planes early and reduced to 21 in 1967?

"During its service life, Bonaventure carried five squadrons. Initially, she embarked 34 fixed wing aircraft and helicopters, however this had been reduced to just 21 aircraft by 1967. The McDonnell Banshee fighter, flown by VF 870 and VF 871 Squadrons, and the Grumman CS2F Tracker anti-submarine warfare (ASW) aircraft operated by VS 880 and VS 881 Squadrons were flown from Bonaventure, along with Sikorsky HO4S ASW helicopters operated by HS 50 Squadron.[6]Even with the angled deck, Bonaventure's flight deck was short for the Banshees and some US Navy pilots refused to land on her deck.[7] The long-span Trackers were also a tight fit. Despite this, Bonaventure conducted sustained around-the-clock operations, keeping four Trackers and two HO4Ss in the air at all times, which monitoring an area of 200 square nautical miles (690 km2). The Banshees were retired in 1962 but were not replaced, and in 1964 Sikorsky CHSS-2 Sea King helicopters began replacing the HO4S. When Bonaventure was retired, her former aircraft continued to operate from shore installations, including CFB Shearwater."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Bonaventure_(CVL_22)

[.Sirius]

ORIGINAL: cdnice

I was playing with the CWDB last night and noticed that the HO4S-2 Horse Helicopters (Canada) are all considered large aircraft when trying to add them to the HMCS Bonaventure. The Bonaventure is limited to medium aircraft on the deck, hangar and elevators. Can these be changed to medium aircraft?

Would it also be possible to add a second version that allows for 34 planes early and reduced to 21 in 1967?

"During its service life, Bonaventure carried five squadrons. Initially, she embarked 34 fixed wing aircraft and helicopters, however this had been reduced to just 21 aircraft by 1967. The McDonnell Banshee fighter, flown by VF 870 and VF 871 Squadrons, and the Grumman CS2F Tracker anti-submarine warfare (ASW) aircraft operated by VS 880 and VS 881 Squadrons were flown from Bonaventure, along with Sikorsky HO4S ASW helicopters operated by HS 50 Squadron.[6]Even with the angled deck, Bonaventure's flight deck was short for the Banshees and some US Navy pilots refused to land on her deck.[7] The long-span Trackers were also a tight fit. Despite this, Bonaventure conducted sustained around-the-clock operations, keeping four Trackers and two HO4Ss in the air at all times, which monitoring an area of 200 square nautical miles (690 km2). The Banshees were retired in 1962 but were not replaced, and in 1964 Sikorsky CHSS-2 Sea King helicopters began replacing the HO4S. When Bonaventure was retired, her former aircraft continued to operate from shore installations, including CFB Shearwater."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Bonaventure_(CVL_22)

Thanks this has already been updated and will feature in the next DB release

[dontpKaniC]

Hi,

Could you please add the Boeing EC-135 "Looking Glass" airborne command post to the database?
I wanted to make some 70s and 80s nuclear war scenarios, but sadly could only find the E-6, which was used for the "Looking Glass" mission from 1998 onward. Before that, the EC-135 was used for the "Looking Glass" mission. Seeing as the E-6 does appear in the database, I think it is reasonable to add the EC-135 also. The "Looking Glass" was the airborne command post of the Strategic Air Command that was in the air 24/7 for 29 years during the cold war.

Also, apart from the "Looking Glass", until 1974 the aircraft also performed the "Nightwatch" mission and was the command post of the US president in the event of nuclear war (After 1974, the E-4, which does appear in the database, replaced the EC-135 for this particular mission).

From the Wikipedia page for the EC-135, these are the variants of the aircraft:

EC-135A - KC-135A modified for airborne national command post role
EC-135B - C-135B modified with large nose for ARIA mission
EC-135C - purpose-built C-135 variant for airborne command post role, "Looking Glass"
EC-135E - re-engined EC-135N
EC-135G - KC-135A modified for airborne national command post role
EC-135H - KC-135A modified for airborne national command post role, "Silk Purse"
EC-135J - KC-135B modified for airborne national command post role, "Nightwatch"
EC-135K - KC-135A modified for deployment control duties
EC-135L - KC-135A modified for radio relay and amplitude modulation dropout capability "Cover All"
EC-135N - ARIA aircraft with "Snoopy Nose"
EC-135J/P - KC-135A modified for airborne command post role, "Blue Eagle" and "Scope Light"
EC-135Y - NKC-135 reconfigured as C3 aircraft for Commander-in-Chief, United States Central Command

I would be extremely thankful if you could add this very important aircraft to the database, especially the EC-135A, EC-135C and EC-135J variants. Without them, the big nuclear war scenarios that I had in mind just seem wrong...

Thanks.

[Zaslon]

Some additions for the Plancheta.

#1381 Mirage IIIEE [C.11] 1970-1978 24x
#1382 Mirage IIIEE [C.11] 1978 24x

Generic RWR is the BU/BZ RWR (same than french Mirage IIIE).

Weapons:
Sidewinder info is correct in DB.
R530 (SARH) AD.26 Radar seeker.
R530 (IR) new in DB AD.3501 Heat Seeker
BR-125 new in DB General Purpose bomb 125 kg, similar to Mk81
BR-250 new in DB General Purpose bomb 250 kg, similar to Mk82
BR-375 new in DB General Purpose bomb 375 kg, similar to M117
BR-500 new in DB General Purpose bomb 500 kg, similar to Mk83
LAU-32 (CRV7)
RPK-10 (supersonic fuel tank 500 liters with 4 hardpoints). new in DB
RPK-10 w/ 4 x BR125
RPK-10 w/ 4 x BR250
RPK-10 w/ 1 x BR375
1,300 liter drop tank
1,700 liter drop tank


Typical A/A loadouts:
2x sidewinders and 1x 1,300 liter drop tank
2x sidewinders + 2x RPK-10 + 1x 1,300 liter drop tank (max. radius 540 nm)
2x sidewinders, 1x R.530 (SARH) and 2x RPK-10.
2x sidewinders, 1x R.530 (IR) and 2x RPK-10.
Commonly used in pairs (one aircraft with R.530 IR and other with R.530 SARH) RAA 379

Typical A/G loadouts:
2x sidewinders + 2x RPK-10 w/ 4 x BR-125 + 1,300 liter drop tank
2x sidewinders + 2x RPK-10 w/ 4 x BR-250 + 1,300 liter drop tank
2x sidewinders + 2x RPK-10 w/ 1 x BR-375 + 1,700 liter drop tank
2x sidewinders + 2x BR-500 + 1,300 liter drop tank
2x LAU-32 (CRV7) + 2x 1,300 liter drop tank
2x LAU-32 (CRV7) + 2x RPK-10


Mirage IIIEE in flight with 2x LAU-32 (CRV7) + 2x RPK-10


Mirage IIIEE showing a R.530 in the belly.


Mirage IIIEE showing a RPK-10 with 2 BR-250? GPB. One BR-500 and BR-250? in the belly.


Mirage IIIDE is missing. Changes from Mirage IIIEE
Two-seat.
No radar.
No SEPR-841/844.
No DEFA cannons.
Lenght: 16 m.

Two new entries proposed:
Mirage IIIDE [CE.11] 1970-1978 6x
Same loadouts than #1381 without R.530.
Mirage IIIDE [CE.11] 1978 - 6x
Same loadouts than #1382 without R.530.

The following image can be useful. It was for a cancelled update so forget the extra 4 hardoints in the fuselage, Maverick, GBU-16 and Pods G.E (DECM/OECM pods).

Weapons per station EE (M).

Sources:
'Revista de Aeronautica y Astronáutica', several numbers (in Spanish)
'Salud y planchetas' article (In french)

Thank you very much.

[NakedWeasel]

I hope I'm doing this correctly and in the right place, but I'd like to request the Vought SLAM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersonic_Low_Altitude_Missile and the GAM-87 Skybolt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAM-87_Skybolt I love to do mid 80's nuclear scenarios, and I've often wondered what it would be like to have these weapons in the game, and what their ultimate effect would be. Actually I know that the SLAM was probably the most horrifying weapon that has ever been devised by mankind. It would have been the ultimate doomsday device. Please and Thank you. If you have any questions please contact me by satphone in my secret bunker.

[TheOriginalOverlord]

DD890 Gearing FRAM 1 with SOB (Shrike On Board)

Suggest changing the 8/8 RGM-45 on the ASROC to a 4/4 version with another 4/4 reload in the magazine. Reason being is all I could find was reference to 4 Shrikes on top of the ASROC while off the coast of North VN.

First hand account from the USS Rowan here: http://tin-can.org/Battles/DD_782/dd_782.htm


Second.. can we get 6/6 ASROC weapon record? If I add the Standard ARM 2/2 to a regular ASROC..the launcher usually loads the 6/8 weapon to 8/8 ASROC PLUS the 2/2 standard. This would be for some Knox and others with ASROC pre-Harpoon.

Third..I've seen the ASROC listed with a range from 1-6 to 10 or 12 miles. Just wondering if it's known what is the correct data?

[Broncepulido]

Very interesting story, thanks Overlord. That remembered me about the Talos anti-radar missile also employed in ground attack (not sure if implemented in the DB) by USS Oklahoma City (in her magnificent web site, mantained by Phillip R. Hays: http://www.okieboat.com/Talos%20antirad ... 0shot.html

[TheOriginalOverlord]

Nice!
I like this part...

"In the spring of 1971 the Oklahoma City executed an underway replenishment to take aboard the new, highly classified, RGM-8H anti-radiation version of the Talos"

Hmmm..you can UNREP a Talos.... [:'(]

[.Sirius]

ORIGINAL: dontpKaniC

Hi,

Could you please add the Boeing EC-135 "Looking Glass" airborne command post to the database?
I wanted to make some 70s and 80s nuclear war scenarios, but sadly could only find the E-6, which was used for the "Looking Glass" mission from 1998 onward. Before that, the EC-135 was used for the "Looking Glass" mission. Seeing as the E-6 does appear in the database, I think it is reasonable to add the EC-135 also. The "Looking Glass" was the airborne command post of the Strategic Air Command that was in the air 24/7 for 29 years during the cold war.

Also, apart from the "Looking Glass", until 1974 the aircraft also performed the "Nightwatch" mission and was the command post of the US president in the event of nuclear war (After 1974, the E-4, which does appear in the database, replaced the EC-135 for this particular mission).

From the Wikipedia page for the EC-135, these are the variants of the aircraft:

EC-135A - KC-135A modified for airborne national command post role
EC-135B - C-135B modified with large nose for ARIA mission
EC-135C - purpose-built C-135 variant for airborne command post role, "Looking Glass"
EC-135E - re-engined EC-135N
EC-135G - KC-135A modified for airborne national command post role
EC-135H - KC-135A modified for airborne national command post role, "Silk Purse"
EC-135J - KC-135B modified for airborne national command post role, "Nightwatch"
EC-135K - KC-135A modified for deployment control duties
EC-135L - KC-135A modified for radio relay and amplitude modulation dropout capability "Cover All"
EC-135N - ARIA aircraft with "Snoopy Nose"
EC-135J/P - KC-135A modified for airborne command post role, "Blue Eagle" and "Scope Light"
EC-135Y - NKC-135 reconfigured as C3 aircraft for Commander-in-Chief, United States Central Command

I would be extremely thankful if you could add this very important aircraft to the database, especially the EC-135A, EC-135C and EC-135J variants. Without them, the big nuclear war scenarios that I had in mind just seem wrong...

Thanks.

Hi not a problems all on the too do list

[.Sirius]

ASROC amendments added and will reflect in the next build

ORIGINAL: Overlord

DD890 Gearing FRAM 1 with SOB (Shrike On Board)

Suggest changing the 8/8 RGM-45 on the ASROC to a 4/4 version with another 4/4 reload in the magazine. Reason being is all I could find was reference to 4 Shrikes on top of the ASROC while off the coast of North VN.

First hand account from the USS Rowan here: http://tin-can.org/Battles/DD_782/dd_782.htm


Second.. can we get 6/6 ASROC weapon record? If I add the Standard ARM 2/2 to a regular ASROC..the launcher usually loads the 6/8 weapon to 8/8 ASROC PLUS the 2/2 standard. This would be for some Knox and others with ASROC pre-Harpoon.

Third..I've seen the ASROC listed with a range from 1-6 to 10 or 12 miles. Just wondering if it's known what is the correct data?

[MR_BURNS2]

Loadout #205 for various Skyraider variants uses Mk82 bombs instead of the Mk81´s mentioned in the name.

[.Sirius]

ORIGINAL: MR_BURNS2

Loadout #205 for various Skyraider variants uses Mk82 bombs instead of the Mk81´s mentioned in the name.

Fixed

[Vici Supreme]

Hi! I made a short list with correct designations, hullnumbers and names for the DDR ship database.

#1457 - 611 Hoyerswerda [Pr.109 Frosch I] --> 611 Hoyerswerda [Pr.108 Frosch I]
#1452 - 751 Max Reichpietsch [Pr.205 Osa I] --> 701 Max Reichpietsch [Pr.205 Osa I]
#1456 - 911 [Pr.131.400 Libelle] --> 900 [Pr.131.400 Libelle]
#1461 - Hai I --> V 81 [Pr.12.3 Hai II] (Sole ship in class. Renamed V 86 in 1970 and V 86 Werdau in March 1973. In service from 11 April 1963 to April 1983)
#1462 - Hai II --> 461 Grevesmühlen [Pr.12.4M Hai III] (First ship commissioned on 5th July 1965. Last ship decommissioned in February 1984)
#1450 - KSS 40 Riga Mod --> 1-61 [Pr.50 Riga Mod] (Later renamed 401 Ernst Thälmann)
#1460 - Labo Class --> 601 [Pr.46 Labo] (First Ship commissioned on 16 June 1962. All but one remaining LCMs decommissioned on 24 October 1977. Last ship renamed E 30, converted to auxiliary and continued service until 1981)
#1466 - MLR 321 Krake --> 6-92 [Pr.15 Krake] (Until three-digit hullnumbers were distributed in January 1959, hullnumbers of this class were arranged X-XX. Last ships decommissioned in 1976)
#1467 - MLR 421 Kondor I --> 301 Greifswald [Pr.89.1 Kondor I]
#1464 - MLR 611 Habicht I --> 611 [Pr.1 Habicht I] (You may want to put "1./2.BA" in side note. BA is an abbreviation for "BauAusführung" which translates to flights or builds. Last ship decommissioned 28 October 1070)
#1465 - MLR 621 Habicht II --> 621 [Pr.1 Habicht II] (You may want to put "3.BA" in side note. Same deal as above. Last ship decommissioned 28 October 1070)
#1449 - MPK SO1 [Pr.201M] --> 711 [Pr.201M SO1] (Later renamed 874 Adler)
#1459 - Robbe --> 501 [Pr.47 Robbe] (Service dates range from 10 April 1964 to 6 Octobe 1978)
#1454 - TS 101 P-6 [Pr.183] --> 5-61 [Pr.183 P-6] (New hullnumber 101 on 01.01.1959 and later renamed 202 Julius Adler in 01.03.1961)
#1461 - TS 970 Iltis --> 911 [Pr.63.300 Iltis A]


You may want to give these two websites a look. There's tons of useful data regarding the DDR Navy.

http://www.parow-info.de/b/Technik.html
http://www.vierte-flottille.de/schiffeu ... estart.php

Hope this helps and thanks!

[Luidzi]

Several propeller aircrafts (so far I've found B-1, B-17, B-24, B-29, B-50, Il-4, Il-10, Il-14, there may be others) have excessively higher fuel consumption at military speed when compared to cruise speed (10-100x higher). Because several other aircrafts with piston/turboprop engines have their fuel consumption only 2-3x higher when compared cruise and military settings, I think there may be something wrong.